Frustrated with my adult son

amother

Oxfordblue

Tue, Dec 12 2023, 8:33 pm

Do you explain to him as you go along? E.g. explain that you already gave out the soup, you're tired from getting ready for Shabbos all day and serving everyone, and you want to sit down and eat? And if he wanted soup he needed to be at the table when you were serving it. All this should be explained calmly, non emotionally, in an informative style. Take the approach that he just needs it explained to him because he doesn't understand, not that he's doing it on purpose. And then you sit down and eat your soup. And if the rule is that no one takes soup by themselves because it makes a mess, then oh well, he's not getting soup tonight. He'll have to be content with the main course. And he'll learn a lesson for next week.

amother

Gray

Tue, Dec 12 2023, 8:40 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

I am going to disagree with the other posters. My 17 year old son has ADHD and executive functioning is real challenge for him. I try to support and help him whenever I can. His life is hard enough the last thing he needs is for me to make it harder. Trust me he is not happy that he has to ask you to send his menorah, he would much rather have remembered to bring it. Maybe if you would be a more of a supportive presence in his life he would say good bye to you when he leaves the house.

There’s a difference between 17 and 20. But even so be careful not to enable him too much or he could end up not being able to pull his weight as a dh and adult.

amother

Tue, Dec 12 2023, 10:22 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Yes, I've been explaining this to him since he was 6 . Or even younger. It doesn't go in.
He has this thing where he argues back, whatever tou say, he will have a rejoinder, and another and another until he wears you down. He sees every interaction like its a gemara, like he has to prove you wrong somehow. I am a very patient person and I used to fall into the trap of explaining time and again.
Words mean nothing.
What I do now is I simply say no more soup. I already served soup to whoever was at the table.
It's just a tiny example. But it's on repeat every time.

amother

Oxfordblue

Tue, Dec 12 2023, 10:31 pm

amother OP wrote:

I have a kid like this. It is BEYOND aggravating and entitled. Don't engage, just state your boundary and move on. "No soup anymore, we're done with that. Sorry." Then ignore him and eat your soup.
Maybe add "Next week, please be at the table when I serve if you want to have soup."

amother

Jetblack

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 12:51 am

I have a son like this. I am concerned that one of my younger daughters started showing similar traits. She hasn’t been assessed and doesn’t have a diagnosis.

I started the Nurtured heart approach and saw a difference very quickly. It didn’t fix everything but I see my son being kind to his siblings and being considerate. I hadn’t seen that in 21 years. It’s been a bit over 2 months now. Saw a change right away.

The hardest part for me is acknowledging good things without sounding fake. It’s so much easier with younger kids. I can be exuberant and it doesn’t sound weird. My daughter has made a turnaround. I couldn’t make any suggestion, request, redirection or teach her anything without having her give me a big reply back, either defending or explaining, diverting or just stam.

With my son I felt like I was failing him and his future by not teaching him but at the same time he just couldn’t chap things. Sometimes it felt like he didn’t want to chap, like he was selfcentered and uncaring of others. C’vs I don’t want to say anything negative about my kid but it was very hard. I have to help, but I also feel like I’m enabling and the tremendous responsibility of preparing him for life. I felt I was failing at that but also frustrated with him.

Got the Nurtured Heart Approach book, didn’t have the time to read it. The title also made me uncomfortable, I didn’t want the kids to see it: transforming the difficult child. I got the audiobook, haven’t had the time to fully listen to it. I was able to listen to the beginning and go directly to the chapter on consequences. This proved very helpful. More so with my younger ones than with my 21 yo. Initially I couldn’t give a consequence to my son. I hadn’t laid the groundwork for that. He also wasn’t home very often. I did the absolute positive part, complimenting any positive I saw. I felt closer to him. He was around me more when he’s home. He also only takes meds for learning. I felt I didn’t get to enjoy any of the benefits of that. It’s been different now. Now I can do consequences cause it’s what we do at home for everyone but they’re super quick, easy, in and out for him. He does them which shocked me. Hope this helps.

LovesHashem

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:18 am

amother OP wrote:

Is try nurtured heart approach as well. I have personal experience with someone who presents like your son, plus I know someone with a different diagnosis that also presents a lot like that as well. Both are people in my extended family. I know they use nurtured heart, I see it done, and I can't even describe the difference.

You really just need to set a boundary and then just repeat repeat repeat. Imagine he is a 3 year old again, "I'm not serving cholent now because I'm lighting shortly. You can eat xyz instead. Next time ask me earlier"

Repeat repeat repeat. Do not get stuck in hashing out the small details of why it's not a good time for cholent.

amother

Broom

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:50 am

Story of my life.

Here's what we have learned in dealing with more than one DS with similar diagnosis:

- They mask well enough that it took a long time to understand that many of the poor behaviors came from "I can't" rather than "I won't". This includes dealing with anything out of normal routine, especially if it involves multiple steps.

- They don't process their surroundings, and sometimes need explicit direction to do many chores which a NT young adult would notice and/or attend to without issue.

- Screens are even worse for them than most people, and even harder to have the strength to avoid.

- They know which phrases (like your DS saying, "I'd have to miss learning") are likely to get them off the hook for something they don't want to do.

- Any changes in life that involve extra on their part have to be carefully previewed. We try to use areas of interest to help them buy in. Last night, I needed an ingredient from the store, that would be used for a meal that one DS liked. Normally, he wouldn't do an errand like that, but this time, he was willing to spend the 45 minutes to walk over and get it.

- Good therapists can be helpful, but finding really good ones takes a lot of legwork.

- They tend to be hypersensitive (while also seeming completely insensitive to others, especially when overwhelmed). When they're stressed, they can dig in their heels over the smallest things. Realizing that these are not moments where they can process logically can help. It helps to validate their feelings, while calmly explaining why this time, things need to be different.

- Your strategy of not falling for the constant argument is very good. I'll often temper it by saying, "I'm not available to discuss this now, but I'd be happy to talk to you about it at _____ (other time)". That can help sort the matters that are only about immediate gratification from the matters of more significance.

- When there's the same situation happening more than once, it's time to get proactive. If there's a weekly demand for food just before Shabbos, then on Thursday, or earlier in the day on Friday, there can be a reminder of the policy, then a last call -- "Remember, the kitchen will be closed and I'll be busy from 2 hours before candlelighting, so plan accordingly". "Kitchen is closing in 20 minutes, last call for food!"

Lady A

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 10:07 am

For OP,

Have you explained to your son that this behavior is not going to serve him well in life?
Marriage, career, parenting, this behavior is going to make his life a nightmare. He needs to be educated about responsibilities and that the world will not revolve around him. Ask him to observe his peers and see how they handle life.
Also, I would just be firm with insisting he has everything he needs before he leaves the house. You are not his Uber. When serving food, he sits like everyone else and if he misses out, so be it.
Good luck.

amother

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 2:35 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

Thank you so much for writing all that out. Sounds like this is a great method. I will get the book. It might help me with my other kids as well. BH none of my other kids have these issues, but I can use an approach to help them be more responsible.

amother

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 2:39 pm

MrsDash wrote:

Unfortunately, ADHD doesn't take a vacation. Sad

Going off meds abruptly, especially stimulants, can backfire almost immediately.

So please, do not be so hard on yourself! From what you posted, you are doing a fantastic job! Hug

True.
He doesn't like to take it during vacation because he says it affects his appetite.
But , exactly like someone else said, I never get to see the benefits of the meds.

When he came home for Sukkos break he was really not in a good place. Quite aggressive and even more zombie like than usual. After a blowup, I asked him if he had been taking his meds and he got super insulted that I asked- because he was convinced that he was okay and the rest of us were the crazy ones...

amother

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 2:42 pm

Gracie wrote:

I'm not coming here with any advice, just a big hug. It's SO incredibly difficult to parent these children. I have a similar but different struggle with one of mine and its such a private, painful, struggle. I'm cheering you on and sending you virtual support!

Thank you!!
BH I am now in a place where we have seen much improvement with this child. He was so incredibly difficult when he was 13-15.
And now, he still needs a lot of help, and he has a ways to go to be functional, but he is so much better.
So I have a long view, and I am grateful for how far we have come.

meyerlemon44

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 5:20 pm

This post really resonated with me because I have a similar child, though she's much younger. I can only share what my experiences as a SN mom have taught me, which is that simple rules and no arguing have been the way to go for me. I would agree with some ground rules in your house with your husband, and lay them out for your son. If it were me, I would add a rule about taking his medication when he's at home. It should be worn off by the end of the day, and he can have an extra meal then if necessary.
Don't overextend yourself for him. He's not a little child anymore and he should be making your life easier, not harder.

I have my husband do the heavy hitting (figuratively) when my SN child disputes things with me. It takes the burden off me.

amother

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:32 pm

He continued to text me today asking if I could send him 9 cups with one of the rebbeim who drives to yeshiva every day.
I said no. (It's always a hassle for me to coordinate with a rebbe.)
I suggested he ask his rebbe what to do.

Thanks to all of you for your validation. It feels less lonesome.
He is really a good boy. And I know he has many limitations. But it's still hard for me not to feel resentful and frustrated with his behavior, since it presents as bad middos and arrogance.