Would you allow 18 year old dd to board with her uncle?

Rappel

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 1:34 am

WhatFor wrote:

I agree with you about how could she not stay at grandparents and the thought of being zxual with relatives is revolting.

The weird part is that if they lived overseas all their lives, it's possible they barely know each other, and if that's so, it's like moving into a place at 18 with a relatively strange guy in the next bedroom and you share a bathroom with him. If this is a chareidi family, I could see this entire conversation being a nonstarter. (And I mean chareidi as it's defined in Israel, not how some Orthodox people in the U.S. identify as chareidi.)

I think the OP said that all parties involved live in the States, but not near each other.

All the seminaries I know of in the States are very right wing/yeshivish. So this young lady will be coming from that background, and will have close contact with a male for the first time in her life.

Without him being involved at all, I can still see her making a fool of herself if she feels hormonal and gets moony over him. It's not worth the embarrassment and potential drama, in my opinion. 18 year olds aren't usually sensible.

Last edited by Rappel on Thu, Jun 22 2023, 1:37 am; edited 1 time in total

WhatFor

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 1:49 am

Rappel wrote:

Oh whoops - thanks for highlighting that. Yes, it does look like they're in the states. Hmmm... Then I guess it's really community dependent and if the grandparents and guy are okay with it, it's then what the girl/her parents want.

Because op wrote that grandparents "expect", it seems like they want it and op is hesitant? I think it's totally normal for a right-wing girl to say she won't stay in a house overnight with a single guy (unless immediate relative, obviously). Regardless of whether or not anyone agrees with that mentality, it's common in these communities, so if op or daughter aren't comfortable, it shouldn't be considered a big deal to look for other arrangements.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 1:57 am

Your question is so vague but the answer is in the question. If you didnt feel comfortable you wouldnt be asking. It so depends on the people involved here.
Personally I wouldnt have thought twice, each person behaves appropriately and it shouldnt be a problem. But if you are already asking then you dont want to enter the situation to begin with.
Go with your gut.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 1:57 am

amother Lightcoral wrote:

Ask a Rav, so you can tell them that although you'd love her to stay by them you've gotten a psak that it's not allowed.
Do you have other relatives she can stay at?

If she didnt "ask a Rav" then she shouldnt say that. Its not so clear cut that a Rav would give such a psak unless there are circumstanced not included in the post.
My husband looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned the OP question, There is no inherent yichud here, unless the grandparents leave the two alone. Most likely the girl will spend her free time hanging out at the dorm with her friends.
Dorming in a room by strangers is also risky.
His take on this is that there is a unwritten question on the grandparents abilities to watch over the 18 year old and perhaps the parents are using the 22yo as an excuse. Which is OK and totally valid.
When my grandparents offered to host my children, they allowed them to do things we would never have and this caused a terrible argument. We had asked them ahead of time to respect certain things and after the visit they told us they couldnt stand up to the kids requests and caved.
There is a reason Hashem gave parents the job and not Grandparents.
Grandparents cant be parents.

Besides, if the 18 yo and her 22 yo cousin have a problem together it wouldnt matter if they are living in the same home or not. My daughters friend started a relationship with her male first cousin (who lived 40 minutes drive away) that rocked both their families for a short while but baruch Hashem died down.
It aint easy to be parents but you dont have to hide behind a Psak to say no if you want to reject the grandparents most generous offer.

Last edited by B'Syata D'Shmya on Thu, Jun 22 2023, 2:19 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Crocus

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 1:59 am

Please don't put either of them into such a situation on a long term basis.

To maintain an appropriate uncle/niece relationship with singles of marriageable age might be challenging even if they were interacting regularly for years. If they haven't been, it's even more difficult. They would need to set some boundaries and the chances that both of them would set identical boundaries are close to nil. Nothing needs to "happen" here for it to be a problematic setup.

amother

Snow

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 3:03 am

It’s a real lack of privacy
What 18 year old girl wants to share her bathroom with a 22 year old male uncle or otherwise?
And it’s not her sib and parents not like she’s gonna want to walk out of shower in a fully covered robe sox etc each time daily
Not to mention the whole set up is hardly fair or right for the 22 year old uncle either
Maybe were it a basement apartment/room and bathroom…
But next door bedrooms and shared bathroom? Beyond awkward
I’d Find another set up that makes sense and let them know regretfully you have to decline their offer — what does the sem suggest for those they don’t have room for in the dorm?

amother

Cerise

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 8:48 am

amother Snow wrote:

Re robe and socks: she might have to do that anyway if she boards.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 9:02 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

How is yichud relevant here ? They are not living alone .

I was just pointing out that yichud is stronger and that implies that there's something to be careful about.

As a side point, there may very well be a yichud problem too. If the grandparents are older and sleep in a diff part of the house, and there's no reasonable fear that they may walk in overnight, it's a shaila of yichud for them to sleep in adjoined rooms.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 9:09 am

We had guests recently and gave them a guesthouse to stay in with an upstairs with three bedrooms, separated by large landing/general areas, and by a laundry room and two bathrooms. There's also a downstairs with a sofa bed and living/dining area.

It was parents, a single older son (late 20s), and their married child with her spouse, baby, and 12 year old daughter from a diff marriage. I was really really really surprised that they put the single son and the 12 year old to share a room. (As in the grandparents took one room, married child took one room, and the uncle and niece one room.)

I guess people have diff feelings about this.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 9:12 am

[quote="B'Siyata DiShamaya]
Besides, if the 18 yo and her 22 yo cousin have a problem together it wouldnt matter if they are living in the same home or not. My daughters friend started a relationship with her male first cousin (who lived 40 minutes drive away) that rocked both their families for a short while but baruch Hashem died down.
.[/quote]

Sure these things happen, and there are happy endings. Still, not a good idea.

Chayalle

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 9:14 am

I wouldn't. (I doubt it's a Halachic issue though....I could ask DH.)

I have 3 daughters BAH and they share a bathroom, sleep in their respective bedrooms. I have an ironclad rule that I don't host single boys ever in my upstairs bedrooms, to share their bathroom (I do host couples). Rule includes cousins. I have gotten some flack for this over the years. Too bad.

amother

Snowdrop

Thu, Jun 22 2023, 9:22 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

And I can’t imagine how a girl wouldn’t sleep by her grandparents…🤷‍♀️

They are her grandparents. I have an uncle a few years older then me. The thought of being s-xual with him is disgusting. It’s like an older brother .

Yes, it's her grandparents. But there's also a 22 year male in the house. Even if it's her uncle and the thought is revolting, no one plans to do inappropriate things. I'd say it's ok for a sleepover or several nights, but not for an entire year.
It's absolutely NOT like an older brother, especially if they don't see each other's often. It's almost like a stranger.