Aren't you happy? (warning, a bit long)

Last night my dh said to me, "You know, I wonder what high school girls do during Purim..." (Meaning the boys go out collecting, drink a little and have a blast in the streets singing and dancing...)

My guess: Helping mom with the seudah, delivering Shaloch Manot...basically working, like all other holidays.

I said to him, you know, Judaism for women and for men is very different. There really aren't "fun" times for women. Maybe in the times of the Beis HaMikdash there were more opportunities, more space for women (I think) but nowadays women's ability to display simcha is extremely limited. From what I have experienced, a woman's simcha has no place for exuberent expression, and it is HARD.

Purim, Simchas Torah...these holidays the men have a lot of fun, I said, "and you know what fun a woman gets to have on simchas Torah...Watching her husband and kids dance." On the whole most holidays mean more work.

He said, well is it better to be secular. Judaism is a great religion for women. Look at the family structure that is built in.

Yes, we get security. No question about that. But hey, if I was secular, I wouldn't be cooking a feast every single week!

I am not saying that I don't want to be frum. I made a decision a long time ago that this was the right way to live my life, and I meant it. That doesn't mean it is always easy, that doesn't mean I love every aspect. Heck, that doesn't even mean I agree with everything hashkafically. But that doesn't mean I am going to go out and go against it.

He started to tell me that he understood and I just looked at him and said: You can't understand. You can never understand. I am not saying I want to be obligated to go to Shul 3 times a day, but you are never trapped in the house for an entire Shabbas or if you do go out it is being trailed by a bunch of little people, whom it takes a half an hour or more to dress just to go out so it isn't even worth the effort half the time! (and trapped because for more than half the year the weather isn't nice enough to go out easily or you don't live in an eruv).

Don't get me wrong I had a lovely Purim, but shaloch manot and a seudah and making sure to get to Megilah reading which my community didn't even make easy to figure out when I could go...It's stressful and its hard and lookee here, Pesach only a few weeks away!

___________________

It's a vent yes, But doesn anyone else understand how I feel????

OP here

Just to clarify, my husban did help, but for some reason, his helping needed to include a lot of my directing--because he kept asking me what he should do and that is just as much work for me as doing it myself sometimes.

As for Simchat Torah. I used to love going to shuls where the women danced, but they are, Ihave found, extremely hard to find. The women dance for like five minutes and then it dies out. Also, with my little kids, it isn't so easy to dance because they won't all stay with tatty and one of them has issues with crowds....

In reality, I enjoy going to shul on Simchas torah and shmoozing with my friends and seeing eveyrone all deckout (the little kids not the moms) and such, but that part of the conversation was to emphasize to my husband that a guy's life and a ga;'s life are quite different.

Silver Member Joined: Jan 08 2008 Posts: 699

see I dont have issue with working hard- My issue is that the men get to dance nad have fun- on Purim and Smchas Torah... and we have to stand around like idiots smiling ... I WANNA GO NUTS TOO!!!!! ( those are thetwo Yomim Tovim a year I wouldnt mind being a man)

The yomim tovim may not be "fun" for women, but I'd rather be one than a man. They have so many more obligations and mitzvos.
Also I'm the type of person who would rather sit and watch than join. I get more enjoyment with that.
_________________
Don't take whatever I say too seriously, this is entertainment for me Smile

.
Member of the Not Good With Words Club.

Silver Member Joined: Jan 08 2008 Posts: 699

Gold Member Joined: Feb 07 2008 Posts: 1226

I know wat u mean...on purim I would love to get up ontop of one of those mobile trucks and dance and act nuts.....these boys look like theyre really living it up...I dont really feel it as much simchas torah like on purim..but it would be really cool to be drunk and just let urself go on purim!!!...oh and there should be some type of womans/girls party for just woman on purim!!!

[quote="amother"]

Gold Member Joined: Apr 26 2007 Posts: 1223

OP
I want to just state again: my dh does help. he does clears the table and he tries. And we don't make elaborate Shabbas, but soup, fish and a main course. The normal fare of chicken and kugel, not so much really, but I work too.

My kids are under 4, so they aren't exactly at an age to help, and I plan on having my boys help as much as my girls...

I think that for myself, and for many women, help as our husbands might, the brunt of the work is ours.

In the house, yes.
But I sort of am the supervisor. I know what needs to be done.
I think the other thing is to let things go a bit and not worry about perfection. I think too many women have the idea that if their floors aren't shiney and the beds aren't made they are falling down on the job. Okay, you don't want crumbs or to stick to the floor but do they have to glow? So if dh doesn't do the greatest of job making a mashaloch manot basket so what?

Posted: Sun, Mar 23 2008, 1:29 pm Post subject:

OP I understand what you are saying. I have found myself frustrated with the role a women plays in a frum jewish home compared to a man. I just had a baby and I am homebound again and I do get a bit jealous of the fact my husband can so easily go out.
_________________
Boy 10, Boy 8, Girl 7, Boy 5, Boy 3, Boy 15 months

I agree with OP, I find many ifnot most of the Yom Tovim have a very different 'simcha' for men vs. women. Like cdawnr I also used to go to a women's Shavuos learning until it was discouraged.

For those who say 'start a women's dance in the women's section' - a) there isn't always room. b) some places (yes, I have been to one) frown on it as un tznius since fathers often come to bring kids back to mommy.

I woudn;t trade my skirt for tfillin anyday, but there is a lot of truth in the notion that YT for women is different than YT for men.

My dh helps a lot but being stuck in doors for hours on end, setting tables, serving food and doing it again and again does get tediuos and frustrating (esp. when the weather is less than condusive for playdates or just going outside!)

I remember having purim parties in highschool for girls. It wasn't all helping my mother the whole day, thats for sure.

As for mm, I think my dh spent as much or maybe more time delivering them then I spent making them.

I don't have this issue with purim at all - it is relatively stress free for me, but shabbos is for sure not so enjoyable as for a man.

if I wasn't a big reader I would hate shabbos, but I do so I love it!

OP, I totally understand where you're coming from!!!!
Purim is one holiday that many women I know, hate. That may sound like a strong word but it's a hard chag all around. The planning, the costumes, the seudah. Serving food and watching the men and boys getting drunk and throwing up wherever. Alot of women have Purims like this. We don't as my dh barely drinks and we don't have what you would call a "fun" seudah. But I see what the seudahs are like at other's homes. Let's face it - it's a man's holiday.

Same with Simchas Torah. Yeah, sure, women can make a circle in shul and dance but PUHLEASE. Zeh lo Zeh.

I also can relate to how you feel with having a bunch of wee ones connected to you like an appendage B"H. I still have 2 little ones. This past Shabbos I had to go to a kiddush which was about 12-15 minutes away. I also had a 7 and 10 year old with me. It was really, really, hard to get there because every few minutes one of my little ones would decide to stop walking or to go to the park. ARGH!!! On the way home my 4 year old must not have felt well and she just sat down in the boiling hot sun and wouldn't move. I can't lift her. So I left my 12 year old with her and continued on home with an ornery/screaming 2 year old who didn't want to walk. Then I sent my husband to get her. I was fit to be tied.

But, you know what? This is as good as it gets, Girl. The men are the ones that are supposed to dance up a storm on Simchas Torah and do the drinking on Purim. Yes, we have to be the good wifeys that make the food, dress the kids and take them to the park, most of the time. That's just how God created the world. I think that as your kids get a bit older your life will get a bit easier physically. Emotionally is another story.
The bottom line is that we embrace motherhood and being a wife but it ain't easy sometimes and we get jealous of life "on the other side". Yeah, they have more "fun" but the obligations are tough too, so I'm not sure I would exchange jobs. One of the things I noticed after I got married is that I spent alot of my time WAITING for my husband to get home from - wherever. Then I heard once that a woman gets schar for waiting for her husband to come home from learning (and, I assume, davening too).

Sorry for rambling, but I just wanted you to know that I totally understand you and unlike everyone here who has suggestions about how to change the situation and try to become more like a man, I have no such suggestions. I just identify with you!
_________________
�All that is thought should not be said. All that is said should not be written. All that is written should not be published. All that is published should not be read.�
Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Kotzk

I think a lot depends on your husband. I think a frum man who grabs every oppurtunity to be partying, getting drunk etc with his friends instead of ensuring that his wife and family are enjoying shabbos and yom tov, is the same person, who if he wasn't frum, would be hanging out in bars and pubs and football games with his friends.