Do you get an allowance?

Marion

Fri, Feb 01 2008, 8:46 am

I'm the main breadwinner, although we both technically have access to the bank account. We only have one card though, and no credit card, and it's usually in my wallet. When we were newlyweds I would give my husband an allowance, but we now have 2 kids and that "allowance" goes towards things the household needs. However, before you go bashing me, DH still has a private account that his parents put money into for him, so he still has spending money if he wants/needs something.

Motek

Fri, Feb 01 2008, 12:13 pm

What makes it a professional opinion?

One poster wrote that she stays out of financial matters in her marriage and therefore has shalom bayis since 75% (that's what I think she wrote) of arguments are about money. I see nothing wrong with this way of handing one's finances though the piece you quoted disagrees.

In many, many marriages, Jewish and not, men were in charge of earning money and giving their wives a weekly allowance to cover their expenses. It's probably not as popular nowadays but I see no reason to denigrate this approach.

Motek

Fri, Feb 01 2008, 12:49 pm

amother wrote:

Are you kidding? How degrading would that be? ...
I can think of few things as humiliating as having to ask your husband for money and/or having to account to him for what you spend.

I find this an ugly, judgemental post, as though your way is the only way.

cdawnr

Fri, Feb 01 2008, 1:23 pm

Motek wrote:

it isn't the approach she denigrates, its the ignorance.

When my father passed away my mother very nearly had to declare bankruptcy. Now their situation was very complicated (they owned a business and when my dad got sick he didn't have time to tie up the loose ends) and it wasn;t a question of getting an allowace, but I think it is pertinent. It was terrifying for her because suddenly all these bill collectors were calling her for payments and hse didn't necesarily have access to all the info she needed, all this while really she was still dealing with the loss of her spouse of 34 years...

Know what's flying, that is all the poster is saying. Ok, if you want to set a family budget that your husband gives you 200 a week for household expenses ...fine, but know what the finances are

justanothermother

Fri, Feb 01 2008, 1:23 pm

Professional was not the exact word I was searching for, but I find this blog to be a source of rational wisdom regarding economic wisdom vis a vis the frum community. I highly value her opinions.

Ruchel

Sat, Feb 02 2008, 2:41 pm

Motek wrote:

silently disagreeing/renouncing is not shalom bayis...

Quote:

In many, many marriages, Jewish and not, men were in charge of earning money and giving their wives a weekly allowance to cover their expenses. It's probably not as popular nowadays but I see no reason to denigrate this approach.

It seems to me that in traditional families, Jewish or not, the money is given to the mother who deals with it accordingly, including giving allowances.

grin

Sat, Feb 02 2008, 2:53 pm

Motek wrote:

One poster wrote that she stays out of financial matters in her marriage and therefore has shalom bayis since 75% (that's what I think she wrote) of arguments are about money. I see nothing wrong with this way of handing one's finances though the piece you quoted disagrees.

In many, many marriages, Jewish and not, men were in charge of earning money and giving their wives a weekly allowance to cover their expenses. It's probably not as popular nowadays but I see no reason to denigrate this approach.

I agree - if this is the only domain of "control" that the husband has "over" the wife, I think it's perfectly acceptable, esp if he gives her "extra" money when she feels it necessary.

Tefila

Sun, Feb 03 2008, 2:19 am

You know there is no wrong or right way. What works for one couple would not work for another. As long as what one does keeps peace in the home then they have to do what ever way works for them.

Motek

Sun, Feb 03 2008, 4:18 pm

Years ago I heard a tape by Rabbi Y. Zweig of Florida and he said that his grandmother was given a weekly allowance by his grandfather and she knew nothing about his business. He gave her the allowance when things were going well for him and also when they were not, and she was none the wiser. She was a happy, secure woman. Her husband provided.

amother

Sun, Feb 03 2008, 4:34 pm

I think a nicer way put would be a budget. DH and I have a budget and we try to keep within it. If we want something we look at the overall budget for the month and see if it is within our means to buy it.

amother

Sun, Feb 03 2008, 4:36 pm

An allowance sounds deragetory, like something I might give a 13 year old boy!

amother

Wed, Feb 06 2008, 8:09 pm

orthonomics.blogspot.com
[/quote]Our Finances: Welcome to the 21st Century

In my first post in the developing "Our Finances" series, I used two threads on the Imamother Chat Board as a starting points. My written piece, in which I stated the necessity of both spouses being aware of the basic details of their household's finances, was posted on the Imamother chat board by a participant. Soon a participant asked exactly made my opinion profesional and why I needed to denigrate the traditional approach. It is actually rather humorous that my opinion was questioned for its professionality since the beginning of my written piece points to professional experience and since many of the women on the site seem to have no problem asking and receiving advice (much of it ranging from bad to terrible advice) from lay people on matters like investing in rental properties, buying life insurance, or selling a home to get out of debt.

Unfortunately, when I address the dangers of not having a clue about household finances, I'm not just talking out my blog. What I write about is based on real life work experience, fielding questions, and reading a lot of personal finance articles. I don't normally feel the need to defend my every opinion and am open to other perspectives, but in this case I feel very strongly that in today's world, yesterday's method of household finances (I.e. keeping one person in the dark, normally the wife) when combined with the yetzer hara, or communication issues, is fraught with danger. I've seen the damage that can be done, I've read about the danger that has been done, and therefore I feel the need to use my soapbox to open up the discussion.

Imamother participant Motek seems to think shalom bayit can be improved when one spouse sees their way out of the finances if it is causing arguments (the idea that resignation is a sign of a healthy marriage deserves a whole post of its own) and she writes that tradition falls out on the side of letting the husband/provider take care of everything. Another poster writes there is no "wrong or right way. . . . as long as it keeps peace in the home."

Motek also brings "daas Torah," writing ". . . . .Rabbi Y. Zweig of Florida . . . said that his grandmother was given a weekly allowance by his grandfather and she knew nothing about his business. He gave her the allowance when things were going well for him and also when they were not, and she was none the wiser. She was a happy, secure woman. Her husband provided."

I am sure the "husband knows best" approach worked, at least somewhat, for Jews and non-Jews alike 50 years ago. I am NOT here to denigrate families (especially families of talmidei chachanim) who lived by this approach. But, I sure wouldn't recommend it today.

Times have changed drastically. Besides the fact that the workplace is flooded with working women, there have been other significant changes. Probably the biggest change in the world of finances is the liberal extension of credit. The availability and ease of getting and using credit was unheard of, even 25 years ago. Today, people can take money out of their homes using a HELOC with the push of a button at the ATM. Another change is mobility, especially virtual mobility. One doesn't even have to leave their home to shop as it can be done from the convience of their own computer with the click of the mouse. And what about gambling (which includes playing the stock market) without anyone ever knowing or seeing you? Another significant change is the proliferation of credit cards and the death of the Mom and Pop store. While credit is still extended at many kosher grocery stores, one need not approach a store owner/manager for a personal loan when they don't have the funds, .

Unfortunately, many spouses are "none the wiser." I hate to bring up the subject of fraud again, but we have many, many, many frum men sitting in jail today (soon to be joined by other, r"l) because they were involved in shady business deals, schemes, and other "victimless" crimes. While I'm convinced some of the wives were perfectly aware that their husband's were engaged in illegal acts and knew that their household could face disaster should the crimes be discovered, I am equally convinced that some wives were sideswiped when their husbands were arrested and convicted. Being "none the wiser" while their husband "provided" certainly doesn't lend credence to the saying "ignorance is bliss."

But, I hate being alarmist. So, let's take a step away from high profile cases and talk about things that could be happening to a person in your neighborhood. I just completed reading a book called Green with Envy: Why Keeping up with the Jonses is Keeping us in Debt, by Shira Boss. The book practically jumped off the library shelf into my bag and it was a worthwhile quick read. In one story, a husband who married right out of high school, but managed to climb up the ladder despite his humble background and lack of higher education end up living "behind the gates," surrounded by Joneses. The family started spending more than they ever spent on country club memberships, Disneyworld annual passes, matching clothing for the kids, high end vacations, cars, home improvements, cleaning help (the neighbors 'convinced' them it was a necessity even though they never knew anyone before with such help), and more. The wife always took care of the finances, and the husband didn't concern himself too much, that was until they cashed out his last stock options. He knew things couldn't be good, but "everyone else was managing" and his wife couldn't seem to give him any hard numbers (a common problem I will hopefully get around to addressing in a post soon). The wife, herself, never actually ran tallies and didn't know the debt totals. In the end, he had to order their credit reports online and had to smell the coffee as they had $100,000 in credit card debt alone, this in addition to the HELOC. A long story short, this high income family ended up bankrupting and can no longer live the way they used to. Here you have an all too common problem of too much credit and too little information in the hands of too few.

I have another friend who was also "none the wiser" about their financial foundation, until her divorce that is. They didn't argue about money. She had seen her way out. She knew her husband had debts, but didn't get involved. . . . until she had no choice. He had borrowed every penny of equity in the house and lost most of it in the stock market. She had made, what would have been a very nice decision to stay home and raise her baby, but nearly ended up facing financial ruin when she found out there was no money in their home and she had no real finances of her own. Baruch Hashem her family came through in a pinch and she is establishing a future for herself now. Divorce or no divorce, she would have been thrown out to the working world eventually because at some point the husband wouldn't have been able to provide.

More to come iy"h, next time on a more positive note I hope.

Quote:

Ruchel

Thu, Feb 07 2008, 4:50 am

In my family the women have always been strong headed Twisted Evil

No allowance for great grandma. It was great grandpa who asked if he could go out Twisted Evil

Motek

Thu, Feb 07 2008, 6:32 pm

What an enlightening comment from ortho!

Quote:

yesterday's method of household finances (I.e. keeping one person in the dark, normally the wife)

notice the judgmental, pejorative tone

Quote:

Imamother participant Motek seems to think shalom bayit can be improved when one spouse sees their way out of the finances if it is causing arguments

I said nothing of the kind. Go back and look.

Quote:

(the idea that resignation is a sign of a healthy marriage deserves a whole post of its own)

Resignation? Huh? All posters are welcome to review what I wrote and see whether I said anything of the kind.

Quote:

Motek also brings "daas Torah,"

That is really amusing. Go check out my thread on Daas Torah.

Quote:

I am NOT here to denigrate families (especially families of talmidei chachanim) who lived by this approach.

Glad you mentioned that since I would have thought otherwise!

Tefila

Thu, Feb 07 2008, 11:13 pm

Quote:

Imamother participant Motek seems to think shalom bayit can be improved when one spouse sees their way out of the finances if it is causing arguments

Hello Mrs amother 1. She did not say that anywhere. 2. But if u insist then perhaps just perhaps she may be right Idea

. Thats why I reiterate what works for one couple does not mean it will work for all. The dynamics are diffferent for every couple so they have to decide what s best for their sholom bayis not you

Ruchel

Fri, Feb 08 2008, 7:48 am

for a moment I thought it was a real article...

morahaviva

Sat, Mar 08 2008, 9:18 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

lol are you being sarcastic, amother? A cleaning lady is $27-$36 usually and pizza is, what, 5 bucks?

WOW!! I wanna live where you live!! Here a cleaning lady for my apartment would be $90, and a pizza pie is 17 (and one pie wont even feed my whole family!)

chocolate moose

Sat, Mar 08 2008, 9:24 pm

a whole pizza is muchmore than that IIRC

shayna82

Sat, Mar 08 2008, 10:37 pm

no I dont get an allowance, I have access to anything I want . My husband said he cant imagine putting me on an allowance... I dont understand it.

imala

Sun, Mar 09 2008, 12:53 am

Whether you have a specific budget, allowance, or whatever your personal situation is regarding how one allocates and spends one's money, it is vitally important that both spouses know all accounts, mutual funds, credit cards, insurance policies, etc. and their passwords because there have been many, many cases where s/o passes away Lo aleinu, and people did not have this important information. I'm not worried that my husband is a crook. But I do think it's important that everyone knows where all this important info is. There are millions of unclaimed bank accounts because people pass away and noone claims them. Every person should at least be a little educated as far as finances go because one never knows what will happen in life.