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| miriamnechama |
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 Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 1:00 pm Post subject: boys and girls |
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I'm totally shocked!!! I was in the park with my 4 year old son and this girl of about 8 or 9 was on the roundabout. (carosella) my son wanted to go on it but she pushed him away, he was upset and crying. I went upto her and told her she has no right to throw him off, and it's public property, ie tha he could also go on it. I put him on it and went to continue studying.
2 minutes later or so this girl comes up to me and says "My mummy doesn't let me sit next to boys" I'm so shocked!!!
1 wher is her derech eretz?? doesn't she realize that hurtimg a child emotionaly is worse?? and where is this maddness that an 8 year old can't si with a 4 year old boy?? I see plent 7 year old or 8 year old girls and chassidish playing together so far that they have their hands around each other...I can't understand her. It's sick!!!
Needless to say I gave her a gantze megilla and withg in minutes she fled the scene.. I felt like calling her mother but she wouldn't giveme \details and her mother wasn't there.
What do you think??
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| madys |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 1:06 pm Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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| I think it's a lack of derech eretz, and I'm also surprised that she was in the park by herself!!! In this day and age, that's unacceptable!!
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| ILOVELIFE |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 1:07 pm Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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| look, I don't if I wld want my dghtr/son sitting next to opposite gender from age 9 or so BUT if a little kid of 4 comes to the carosel, I wldn't stand for my kid throwing that one off- I think derech eretz is a big kid gets off for the little one if they don't want to sit together.
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| miriamnechama |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 1:16 pm Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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| your right I also think so. so als at leat no to hurt a child's feelings.
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| shalhevet |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 2:28 pm Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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What about the little girl's feelings? Who gave you the right to -
| Quote: | | I gave her a gantze megilla and withg in minutes she fled the scene.. |
She's only a child herself and, no, of course she doesn't
| Quote: | | doesn't she realize that hurtimg a child emotionaly is worse?? | Doesn't sound like you were too concerned for her emotional well being either, and you're an adult.
I don't see anything wrong in you telling her nicely that it's not her personal property and that she can choose whether to stay on with your son, or get off, and she certainly shouldn't have pushed a little child. But she might have been told not to play with little boys (and it's called different standards of tzniyus, not sick) and a nine year old is not mature enough to make a well thought out decision on what is more important.
momof3 - in EY things are very different and in frum neighbourhoods you will find plenty of 8 or 9 year olds by themselves in parks.
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| gryp |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 2:52 pm Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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| I don't think a child deserves to be screamed at like that. At all.
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| creativemommyto3 |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 2:57 pm Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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I think it depends on how she pushed the kid off. If she pushed the kid down to the floor, then she should be severely reprimanded for hurting a little child. If it was just , no we don't want you here and a soft push then I agree.
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| HindaRochel |
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| Posted: Tue, Jun 12 2007, 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: boys and girls |
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| Quote: | [quote="miriamnechama"]I'm totally shocked!!! I was in the park with my 4 year old son and this girl of about 8 or 9 was on the roundabout. (carosella) my son wanted to go on it but she pushed him away, he was upset and crying. I went upto her and told her she has no right to throw him off, and it's public property, ie tha he could also go on it. I put him on it and went to continue studying.
2 minutes later or so this girl comes up to me and says "My mummy doesn't let me sit next to boys" I'm so shocked!!! |
I think it is a bit silly that an 8 or 9 or even a much older girl could not sit on a roundabout with a boy under six, and I find the reverse kind of silly as well, but different people do have different standards.
I don't know how many children you have or if you have a child of 8 or 9 but they are still quite young and immature at that age. She may have just learned this recently from her parents and overreacted to the "immodest" behavior.
| Quote: |
Needless to say I gave her a gantze megilla and withg in minutes she fled the scene.. I felt like calling her mother but she wouldn't giveme \details and her mother wasn't there.
What do you think?? |
I don't think you should have yelled at her, but I can understand your ire. Your son was hurt and it is hard not to feel angry. But a better way of handling it may have been to try and work out a solution; Okay, he'll sit over on this side, you sit on that side." or... You can have ten more minutes then he gets a turn. If you want to stay on fine, but you can't push him off. Because you have been on for awhile he gets 15min.
I know, that would cut into your study time, and that's probably why you went off to the park in the first place; to have study and play time together.
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| miriamnechama |
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| Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2007, 10:18 am Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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it'sa all very nice what you are saying but take for eg a plane ride, a gril eg is put next to a male, the air crew is not going to listen to her saying my mother doesn't let me sit with males... you sit where you're told to and that's that!! I had the same exp when I flew last, the first rtime I asked if they could put me with a female and she goes to me, I have no idea where passengers are sitting, so twice I was put next to a man... what could I do complain?? there was nothing for me to do being with out dh who was in uman then and just with ds. although as a girl when I flew elal I got my request.
What I'm trying to point out is if thsi girl thinks she can get away with it in the park what will she do when she eg has to travel alone ie by plane and is put next to a make... kick up a fuss?? air creware no interested in the things they want you seated so the can leave of face being thrown off the plane... reminds me of a story... to be posted iyh...
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| gryp |
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| Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2007, 10:27 am Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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| she was only 8 or 9, you said. and let's assume she's immature for her age and acts like a 7 yr old. your lesson is going to fly right over her head, she's just not able to be receptive to it, she's too young.
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| miriamnechama |
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| Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2007, 10:57 am Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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| and when she gets older and more mature?? and still has this in her head. not everything in life goes how we like you know...
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| mimivan |
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| Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2007, 11:25 am Post subject: re: boys and girls |
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Sounds like she was feeling defensive about what she did and was using this as an excuse...
I have a hard time believing that she is taught to avoid little 4 year old boys entirely. If so, how would she be able to babysit? I thought the problem halachically was with boys over 9 not vice versa (I.e a rav told me that not only was I allowed to baby sit boys, but I could hold their hands and sing to them up until 5, and even then it was permitted, but a chumra for chinuch)
Look at your own families and your own experience and then see whose side you are taking? Isn't it interesting..? I am speaking for myself, but I find when faced with this situation how we initially react when hearing about it (we didn't see how hard the girl pushed the boy, we didn't hear what the mother said...like those abuse threads) may have something to do with the ages and experiences of our own children...
just my 2 cents..
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| HindaRochel |
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| Posted: Wed, Jun 13 2007, 11:32 am Post subject: Re: re: boys and girls |
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| miriamnechama wrote: | it'sa all very nice what you are saying but take for eg a plane ride, a gril eg is put next to a male, the air crew is not going to listen to her saying my mother doesn't let me sit with males... you sit where you're told to and that's that!! I had the same exp when I flew last, the first rtime I asked if they could put me with a female and she goes to me, I have no idea where passengers are sitting, so twice I was put next to a man... what could I do complain?? there was nothing for me to do being with out dh who was in uman then and just with ds. although as a girl when I flew elal I got my request.
What I'm trying to point out is if thsi girl thinks she can get away with it in the park what will she do when she eg has to travel alone ie by plane and is put next to a make... kick up a fuss?? air creware no interested in the things they want you seated so the can leave of face being thrown off the plane... reminds me of a story... to be posted iyh... |
mn; this is a 8 or 9 year old girl. She isn't likely to be flying on the plane alone, and if she is the, most likely she isn't going to fight the flight attendent on where she sits. She has time to learn how to negotiate, compromise as well as stick up for her principals. Give her time. I am not saying let her get away with pushing your son off, but help her learn how to do "not sit by boys" the right way.
(although, re planes, if she is as nervous and pathetic looking as my now 13, then 9 year old was on her first airplaine flight--going to my parents--- she might, like my daughter did, get moved to 1rst class. Of course my daughetr didn't utter one word of complaint; she just looked terrified and so sorrowful the stewardess moved her! Dang, why didn't I ever think of that trick!)
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| ILOVELIFE |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 14 2007, 11:49 am Post subject: Re: re: boys and girls |
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| miriamnechama wrote: | it'sa all very nice what you are saying but take for eg a plane ride, a gril eg is put next to a male, the air crew is not going to listen to her saying my mother doesn't let me sit with males... you sit where you're told to and that's that!! I had the same exp when I flew last, the first rtime I asked if they could put me with a female and she goes to me, I have no idea where passengers are sitting, so twice I was put next to a man... what could I do complain?? there was nothing for me to do being with out dh who was in uman then and just with ds. although as a girl when I flew elal I got my request.
What I'm trying to point out is if thsi girl thinks she can get away with it in the park what will she do when she eg has to travel alone ie by plane and is put next to a make... kick up a fuss?? air creware no interested in the things they want you seated so the can leave of face being thrown off the plane... reminds me of a story... to be posted iyh... |
huh? the plane example is actually a very strange one because most airlines that deal with frum ppl today (Continental, ELAL, SWISSAIR, Delta, Israir-- to name a few that I've used) are very accomodating of the frum ppl who don't want to sit next to opposite gender. (I think that is a post in and of itself how it shld be done) but the fact is that out of all examples- that was a strange one to pick IMHO.
And let me ask s/thing else-- when u were a kid and didn't get to go to the mall or get a nosh- whatever- you NEVER kicked up a fuss?! Did your mother go hysterical that OMG if she's kicking a fuss now, what'll she do when a job doesn't work out- will she tantrum in the office?! Or did your mother (I pray she did!) think- "Look, she's a kid and she'll grow up."
An 8-9 yr old is a kid from any way you look at it.
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