moving to chicago?

amother

Mon, May 26 2008, 10:43 pm

Another Chicagoan here. I am sad and disappointed about what I have read. I moved here a few years ago with young children, I am not rich (or close to it), am not fancy (by any stretch of the imagination) and have the MOST WONDERFUL neighbors and friends. (In the "rich" neighborhood of Petersen Park!! I have not experienced snobbery, name dropping or exclusivity here.
To answer some complaints: We do not have hatzola because B"H the local ambulances respond as promptly as Hatzola would be able to. We have an acheinu directory (thanks to the CCTC) with a list of frum yidden who live near different hospitals. Being that there are so many hospitals here I don't think it is so inconceivable that we don't have Shabbos rooms, but we DO have Bikur Cholim, a wonderful Jewish Library, Chicago Chesed Fund that incorporates many different venues such as a baby gemach, a warehouse of food where people shop for free, giving out food from simchos and surplus from stores, paying mortgages and tuitions, furniture gemach, etc, etc, Shifra and Puah where one can take clothes, toys and baby equipment at no charge, and many other community organizations. And - Jewel is open 24 hours and Taboun Grill until after midnight!! There are people living in Chicago that owe their functioning to the CCF - I have often thought about how lucky these families are that they live here where they are taken care of so wonderfully. Chicago takes care of its own!!
Sorry for the long rant - but while Chicago was not my first choice of places to move to, this is where my husband found a job and the people here are great. There are snobs in every community. Maybe it's time to meet new people!
One complaint I do have is about the Mikva on Touhy. I mean, what an embarassment for a city with so many gevirim!! But I'm paying my $28 per month for the next three years ($1,000 per family) and hope the improvements will be VAST!! It's so bad that I called Rabbi F. and told him it is an embarresment for the city of Chicago that a woman has to dread going to the mikva here. Anyone agree?

Fox

Mon, May 26 2008, 11:15 pm

Okay -- I think I've established myself as someone willing to be critical of my own community when it fails, but some of these complaints strike me as fallacious.

midwest wrote:

We have no hatzola, no Shorim etc.

This is a positive, not a negative. Communities don't -- or shouldn't -- undertake the enormous cost of a Hatzolah unit simply to show they "care" about fellow Jews. The only legitimate reason to spend community money on such a project is to improve the emergency care that members of the community receive.

Each time the idea of establishing a Hatzolah branch is proposed, the statistics are reviewed to make sure Hatzolah would really do a better job in either response time or response capability. To date, the evidence has not shown that there would be any significant benefit. Now, obviously, this situation could change at any time, and I agree that it should be reviewed frequently.

I actually consider the quality of city services to be a significant plus in Chicago. While all urban areas suffer from the problems of lots of people packed into limited space, I feel that we get far better service than is typical of most major cities in the U.S.

midwest wrote:

What made it less stressful was the chessed provided in the "Shabbos room" in the hospital. It's stocked with kosher food etc. Here we have NOTHING like that!

That's a great idea, but are you telling me that every hospital in London has a Shabbos Room? Possible but unlikely. Let's review the list of potential Shabbos Room locations: Children's Memorial? Northwestern Memorial? Evanston Hospital? St. Francis Hospital? Rush North Shore? University of Chicago Hospitals? Loyola Hospital? These are just a few of the hospitals in which Yidden are routinely hospitalized, largely because they are seeking specialized care.

Rather than bemoaning the lack of a Shabbos Room in each of these places, I'm pleased that we have so many world-class hospitals within such a short distance. I've spent Shabbos in three of the above-named hospitals either as a patient or parent of a patient, and while I suppose a Shabbos Room would have been nice, I had no trouble arranging kosher food, etc.

midwest wrote:

Plus, socially there;s not much to do- everything kosher closes by 9pm!

This, I will admit, is true. And it can be annoying. But again, you have to understand the community; there is simply not the kind of money that exists in NY or LA. With the exception of less than two dozen families, people are unable and/or unwilling to spend money on entertainment in restaurants, etc. Now, I love to eat out, so this drives me crazy, but I am a bit proud to live in a community where kosher wining-and-dining has not reached a level of ubiquity.

RivkiA wrote:

when we moved here we were looking to buy a car. we wanted to lease a really nice SUV

Yes, many people will be disapproving of what they perceive to be conspicuous consumption, especially by a young couple. While they shouldn't engage in loshen hora, their disapproval is a by-product of their desire for Chicago to remain less materialistic, and that's not necessarily wrong. Most Chicagoans do not drive luxury automobiles. It's pretty much limited to a small number of wealthy men, and even their wives drive the same vans or minivans as the rest of us. Your fil would have been in error if he hadn't clued you into this subtle "rule".

Ultimately, comparing communities seems to me to be a fruitless exercise. There are things each community can learn from another. I don't want to take the defensive posture of enumerating Chicago's virtues; suffice to say that there are many wonderful things about living here. And based on other threads about staring children, etc., it doesn't sound like we're the only ones who occasionally need reminding that we were once strangers in a strange land.

Although maybe we should arrange a Chicago meet so that everyone will have friends! Oh, and I'll be happy to talk to anybody in shul who's willing to drop by my house and get me out of bed in time!

Fox

Mon, May 26 2008, 11:42 pm

RivkiA wrote:

fox- which shul do ou go to?

To quote Rivkie Eichenstein, "When people see me in shul, they start looking around to see when shofar is being blown." Seriously, usually AWRPAK (Aguath of West Rogers Park at KINS in the basement) or Eichenstein's on Touhy. My friends all love Khal Chassidim, though, and I keep meaning to get there.

Truthfully, we usually have a lot of guests, so I generally daven at home and spend the morning setting up for the seuda.

amother wrote:

It's so bad that I called Rabbi F. and told him it is an embarresment for the city of Chicago that a woman has to dread going to the mikva here. Anyone agree?

If you don't like it now, just thank Hashem you didn't living in Chicago "back in the day". I don't remember exactly how long ago, but there was a time when the mikvah ladies were so nasty that I used to dread going. I mean really, really unpleasant. Eventually there were so many complaints that the worst offenders were "retired" and thanked profusely for their service to the community. The ladies now are in general much nicer.

mumoo

Mon, May 26 2008, 11:45 pm

I'd love a Chicago meet. Reading this thread has really given me so much to think about. I've lived here all my life- at different times in different suburbs, once at the edge of the frum community. I have never, ever experienced any of the negativity mentioned here.

I have no explanation for your bad experiences; at first I was tempted to say you get as good as you give. But that would be unfair of me as I don't know you ladies personally, I don't think I do, anyway (but as I work in both mikvaos and in the major chesed organization, maybe I do.....

I find Chicago to have so many of the advantages of a large community, the stores, school choices, etc. but not the negative cliquiness that inevitably happens when there are so many people, one naturally gravitates to those most like herself.

My children are friends with others from every school in town. I also have friends from all different shuls, neighborhoods. I find Chicago (and Skokie) to be pretty homogeneous.

It was surprising to me that there are several of you that had such negative views of Chicago. I hope it changes for you soon.

amother

Tue, May 27 2008, 4:36 am

Fox wrote:

amother wrote:

It's so bad that I called Rabbi F. and told him it is an embarresment for the city of Chicago that a woman has to dread going to the mikva here. Anyone agree?

I don't even live in Chicago, but I have gone to the mikva there a few times while visiting family. The last time I was there the attendent was soooo nice! I wrote in a special note on the comment card that this was so differnt than my previous experiences! I hope they keep it up!

Annie

Tue, May 27 2008, 9:38 pm

Another happy Chicagoan here. I grew up here and went to HS here, although most the people I went to HS with are of a different hashgafa than we are now. We have kids at BY, and I teach there and at one of the girls' high schools. I have found the yeshivish community very welcoming.

I'm very sad to see young people so unhappy here. It's hard enough to get some of the young couple's to come back, I hate to have people moving here and being unhappy.

I agree that the mikvah is less than exciting, but they are working on improving it, which is great.

Would be happy to get together over the summer with other imamothers, although I'm not on imamother so often these days, so PM me if you ladies decide on anything.

I think a lot of "fitting in" here has to do with the neighborhood you live in. Even just a few blocks make a difference. We spend a lot of time walking our kids to playdates on shabbos and going to friends' houses because we don't live in the main area where our kids' friends are.