College and Women | Imamother

Mommy912

Sat, Jun 11 2005, 10:55 pm

A Jewish girl in the US has different options after finishing high-school. Some go to a teacher’s seminary in the US or overseas and some go to college: either co-ed or separated. For those who go to seminary, when the year is done comes the choice whether to continue learning in college or stop.
Do you think a college education is good for a frum girl? On one hand there are many spiritual pitfalls in some of the subject matter. Sitting in a class with non-Jews can have dangerous effects. On the other hand, if a girl doesn’t learn anything past seminary then her income potential is limited and this can cause a lot of stress in married life, especially if she wants a husband who is learning and she has to provide the income. Some ppl. have to decide to go back to school after marriage and kids and this is much harder then going when single.
Are you happy with the level of education that you have? Would you go back to school to learn more if it was possible? Would you recommend the same to your friend? Your sister? Your daughter?

Last edited by Mommy912 on Sun, Jun 12 2005, 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total

chavamom

Sun, Jun 12 2005, 1:08 am

My oldest dd is 9, so we aren't at that point yet. I personally went to college and got a degree not once, but twice. I will probably go back again at some point to become a midwife, so I'm pretty experienced with it. I think what I plan to tell my dd's is that if they want to go to college, it should be after a good grounding in seminary and try to get as many college credits in a 'kosher' environment (like the programs they have with some of the Beis Ya'akovs or through Ma'alot at Neve). Probably best if they want to go to a 'real' college that they get married first, but second best would be to take any other classes while living at home.

Tefila

Sun, Jun 12 2005, 11:16 am

My mother at the age of 50yrs went to university and got her degree and diploma in pysycology. I believe she was not one of the younger students Very Happy

This was after she finished seminary and raised a large family and had married most of us off and also had 5 grandchildren b"h, she felt there was a need in the frum world. So she rose to the challenge.

As for me well I have a high schooll diploma and a Judaic teachers degree. And loads of experiance raising others plus my own kids.
(Sounds like a resume Rolling Eyes

) So why do I need anything else?!
College and university from what I have heard poses problems for the single man or women. And when one is married it is hard to juggle college w/h raising children. So if someone feels they have to do it (women I'm talking about) wait till you b/come a bubby and meanwhilst fill ones heads w/h kodesh, ( this is the best investment it's a sense of accomplishment and can be passed down from one generation to another etc etc

IndyMom

Sun, Jun 12 2005, 12:16 pm

I went to touro flatbush (all girls) when I was single but I dropped out becuase I thought I had better ways to pass my time. Now I am in a regular nonjewish college (see my avatar) and I KNOW I have better ways to pass my time, but I really want to get my degree. I struggeled with it for a few years now- do I want to be home all day with my kids, or busy iwth school. I go partime and I believe it actually makes me a better mother to have something I am striving for and working hard on that is outside the home. As a single girl I would think that a coed college would be a bad idea. Even as a married woman I sometimes notice professors and other students "notice" me. I can't imagine that that would be good if I were single.

Mommy912

Sun, Jun 12 2005, 1:59 pm

What about those who can't make it on a teachers or secretaries salary? I have friends who are really stressed trying to make ends meet and are deep in debt. Kids school tuition is so expensive and life just costs money. Isn't it better to try to plan things, though I know things don't always work out, and set up some way to earn money? These girls who work, work long hours and the work is not so enjoyable, and to top it all off they aren't bringing home enough money to pay for necessities.

chavamom

Sun, Jun 12 2005, 2:27 pm

BTW - I just wanted to point out that I got my second degree (in nursing) with 5 children. And I carried a 4.0 every semester except for the one I gave birth. As my kids have gotten older and I've had more (so now I have older kids and younger kids) I find it harder to make time and that is why I haven't gone back for the graduate degree. But I think college with small children is definately not impossible. Esp. when you consider that the average college student is generally not that motivated, organized AND used to wasting lots of time. I mean, I had a house to run, but I didn't have all the social obligations of a Thurs. night frat party, a Fri. frat party, a Sat. football game, the *must see* TV - you get the picture. When I went back to school, all the kids went to bed by 8 o'clock, my husband went out to teach or learn and I studied for several hours. It was definately managable.

Rivka

Tue, Jun 14 2005, 7:23 pm

I got into Uni before I got accepted into sem. I did plan on going but it didn't work out because the Uni and the course I wanted to do was in London.
I do still plan on doing a similar course when my husband graduates, as it's something I really want to do. It isn't a degree like a Dr or Lawyer or anything that will earn mega bucks, it's just something I reall enjoy doing and I feel if I am in that sort of enviroment I might get back into it.
Over here there are no frat parties or anything and loads of Jewish girls and guys go to Uni, I think it's a different culture. Yes you get the boozing students who spend all their money on booze and more booze and get totally smashed at the weekend, then they end up failing their exams. So really quite a waste. It is also very different if you go to Uni while living at your parents or in your own home rather than on your own, you are more likely to go to the lectures, then sit in the library and head for home rather than have time to socialise with everyone.

curlyhead

Wed, Jun 15 2005, 6:46 am

Quote:

As for me well I have a high schooll diploma and a Judaic teachers degree.

freilach- is the jewish teachers degree just from seminary??
What about men who study in Yeshiva their whole lives and then get married have to support their family without a degree?

Tefila

Wed, Jun 15 2005, 10:40 am

Quote:

freilach- is the jewish teachers degree just from seminary??

Yep and that is why ia"h I will only send my daughters to ones that offer it, since not all of them do Confused

and

Quote:

What about men who study in Yeshiva their whole lives and then get married have to support their family without a degree?

I don't know about that but I'll say this certain yeshivas in the Lubavitch world anyways the semicha program is equivelant to a BA. So if ones passes the semicha program, but doesn't come around to be a Rabbi. In thoery they could enter law school w/h the credits and BA recognized from the Yeshiva they got it

Mommy912

Wed, Jun 15 2005, 10:51 am

What about the girls who don't like to teach, or more importantly, those who try to teach bec. that is the only choice available and have no patience for the kids and aren't good teachers?

chavamom

Wed, Jun 15 2005, 6:20 pm

freilich wrote:

Not just Lubavitch yeshivas - I know that Ner Yisrael is the same way. My oldest son thinks this is what he will do eventually.

lucy

Wed, Jun 15 2005, 7:55 pm

I went to university before and during marriage, & from experience I can honestly say it is definitely not a place for a single frum girl. We are very fortunate that there are many programs run by frum organizations were ppl are able to obtain a bachelors degree in certain fields or certificates, credited courses etc. so I would definitely consider that when the time come (my kids are just way to young to even have the thoughts in their minds right now!) if they would want to have post seminary education I would send them there.

As for the men besides these places I know that the Lubavitch Yeshivah in Morristown if they complete the program they get a BA in something like Religious studies.

IBR

Wed, Jun 15 2005, 9:57 pm

I went to touro didn't get a degree cause I didn't know what I was doing. I went to the boro park location. now I m finishing a medical transcription course online if anyone is interested visit this site.
http://affiliates.thevlc.com/c.....l.com
they offer a lot of courses in different things and if you sign up to a course through this url I will get a little bit off my tuition cause I refered you its an affiliate program. thanks Very Happy

sarahd

Thu, Jun 16 2005, 4:07 am

chavamom wrote:

freilich wrote:

Not just Lubavitch yeshivas - I know that Ner Yisrael is the same way. My oldest son thinks this is what he will do eventually.

As a matter of fact, my cousin learned in Lakewood Kollel for around 10 years after he married, and that was equivalent to a Master's. When he had to leave kollel, he studied computers in an Agudah course, which gets you a certificate but no degree, but because of his "Masters" he had no problem finding a job.

Aish

Wed, Jun 29 2005, 9:28 pm

Mommy912 wrote:

What about the girls who don't like to teach, or more importantly, those who try to teach bec. that is the only choice available and have no patience for the kids and aren't good teachers?

this is a real issue. not all girls, even if they are frum their whole life and grew up in large families, are made to be teachers or even want to be teachers. there are more options out there that a frum girl can take. like taking courses online, etc... it happens to be that that is what seminary teaches and offers you the opportunity to learn and get a degree in. and because we hold jewish childhood education is of the utmost importance. but if its not for someone there are other "kosher" options out there.

Rivka

Mon, Jul 04 2005, 6:45 pm

I would probably push my children to go to Uni here...I have no idea what it's like in the US, but doing a course here is going to a college with a load of low lifes usually who haven;t done A-Levels in school coz they were busy playing truant. But some colleges have great courses for kids who are not academically charged, such as photography and hair and make-up and design and computers etc etc. I wouldn't advise doing art. My friend started doing that coz she is very good, but quit in the middle coz of the stuff she had to draw. Not really very suitable.

queenie

Sun, Jul 10 2005, 3:31 pm

Many of the course offered by Jewish institutions are worth the paper they are printed on. You might as well send away for an online certificate. The only places that will hire you from one of those places is another Jewish institution. This is true of the Canadian courses. I don't know about the states.

I want my kids to be able to support themselves. I don't mean "I don't need a man syndrome," I mean, if chas v'shalom something happens or you don't get married right away or you need more money.

A woman should be able to understand her family finances and budget, invest money properly and be able to make decisions. She shouldn't be lost in the world if she is buy herself. She should also be able to earn enough money to buy a house. You should be able to have a steady job. I think a seminary certificate won't give you that stability.

Motek

Sun, Jul 10 2005, 8:59 pm

queenie wrote:

I mean, if chas v'shalom something happens or you don't get married right away or you need more money.

I can certainly understand that, but it find it disturbing nonetheless, because for a boy - he's learning a profession to be able to support his family, but for a girl - she's learning a profession in case of disaster (death or divorce) or something unfortunate (not getting married and having to support herself or not being supported sufficiently by her husband).