Monsey Cheder - Vien, Munkatch or Imrei Shefer

DrMom

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:33 am

Squishy wrote:

Yes the schools are vetting the homes. I expect every family to be respectful of the heskofa of the school they send to. I don't have to re-vet them, nor would I ask the questions the schools are able to. When a person affirms there is no TV, I don't have to go into their home and investigate. I don't question if we have shared values.

It is not just when the kids go into the actual house that there is a problem. Kids bring their point of view and their exposures to school. If a child's mom is wearing sandals and shorts at home, then perhaps this child will be disrespectful about the school uniform. The house the child comes from is important.

Maybe these schools should simplify their rules by issuing uniforms for the parents too.

mandr

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:35 am

Maya wrote:

Perhaps you don't know enough of such children.

We value things like acceptance, tolerance, education and knowledge. I know, it's a foreign concept which may be difficult for Chassidim to grasp. I don't blame you for not understanding.

But aren't chassidim the ones sending to these schools?

I know plenty such children because I grew up in a neighborhood where most kids are in Munkatch, Imrei Shefer, and the like. I can't say the children or their parents are especially tolerant, educated or knowledgeable.

I went to a school with a rule book the size of a pocket dictionary and I am happy. My parents were/are happy. I believe I have more tolerance and acceptance than lots of other Chassidish people. And I'm not bitter like lots of the parents who send to those schools. And I'm not boo-hooing because poor me couldn't use internet or go to the public library or to Florida for vacation or to wear socks at age 4 or to wear certain jewelry.

DrMom

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:40 am

Why can't you go to Florida (or Amsterdam, as another poster mentioned)? There are many frum Jews living in Florida and Amsterdam year-round. Are they banned from Monsey schools for life?

Maya

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:42 am

mandr wrote:

So I guess you're like a perfect person. That's good. (Except that your supposed tolerance is not evident on this thread at all.)

One minute, you grew up in a neighborhood where the kids went to Munkatch and Imrei Shefer? As far as I know, the oldest kids of these schools are ten or eleven year olds. How could you have grown up with them?

naturalmom5

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:43 am

DrMom wrote:

Why can't you go to Florida (or Amsterdam, as another poster mentioned)? There are many frum Jews living in Florida and Amsterdam year-round. Are they banned from Monsey schools for life?

Probably

mandr

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:45 am

Maya wrote:

They live in the area I grew up in. Today. These days I'm still very much in that neighborhood although I don't actually live there right now. Notice I did not say I grew up with these children.

Maya

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:50 am

mandr wrote:

They live in the area I grew up in. Today. These days I'm still very much in that neighborhood although I don't actually live there right now. Notice I did not say I grew up with these children.

Got it.

So you were happy going to a school with a million rules, and I would assume you'd be happy to send your children to such schools too.
And this proves what? That now we all have to be happy with it because you are?

One more thing. You know you lost an argument what you have to resort to the "bitter parents" attacks to deflect from the meaningless things you are trying to argue.

mandr

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:55 am

Maya wrote:

No, but the way people are carrying on here about how rules disgust them and all, I just had to point out that it's not always a bad thing.

You know you are a bitter parent if this actually bothers you.

amother

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:56 am

DrMom wrote:

Why can't you go to Florida (or Amsterdam, as another poster mentioned)? There are many frum Jews living in Florida and Amsterdam year-round. Are they banned from Monsey schools for life?

Someone like me, with no power over the school, can risk having my kids not accepted. But someone with a little power can go. Or - the one that gets me the most angry - the Rebbe of that Chassidus - he can go along with his close people - and his pictures will be posted all over for his followers to admire. And yet his school can kick me out for going At wits end

mandr

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 10:58 am

amother wrote:

Lol, I see your indignation but it's kind of different for a Rabbi to go than for a highschool girl! The Rabbi doesn't hang out a beach or restaurants or water parks or cafes. The Rabbi has his private cabin or house or whatever and doesn't go out much.

Maya

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:01 am

mandr wrote:

Extreme rules are always a bad thing. If they don't upset you, maybe that's because you're so deep in it, you may have lost all ability to think rationally about them. That's one theory.

And let's suppose I am bitter. How does it fit into the equation of valuing education over radicalism? What does it prove or disprove?

amother

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:02 am

mandr wrote:

I went to a school with a rule book the size of a pocket dictionary and I am happy.

That's the difference. A couple of years ago, it was just a "pocket dictionary". Now it's the size of an encyclopedia. What's next??

If I know the rules are staying the way they are (or were), I can live with that. But from one day to the next the school can come up with another weird, baseless rule, and the next day something else...

Maya

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:02 am

mandr wrote:

Our school didn't let us go even if we locked ourselves into that same fancy expensive hotel as the rabbi does. It's certainly a "do as I say, not as I do" situation.
It shouldn't be different. A rule is a rule.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:03 am

Squishy wrote:

I don't care if the parents watch TV in their bedroom. I care if my child goes to someone's house and they are exposed to things in a TV or the Internet that I don't approve of. Whether or not the parents are hypocrites is not my concern. BTW I refuse to sign the requisite piece of paper that I don't have Internet. I don't believe it is my job to watch anyone else's hypocrisy.

Personally, I'd rather my kids be friends with other kids who parents wear shorts- than with kids whose parents are hypocrites. I think that's a lot more likely to negatively influence their kids and my own.

amother

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:06 am

mandr wrote:

I understand the difference. I honestly do. But if a school sets a rule, they must stand by it and be an example. There are plenty of places for the Rabbi's to go other than the places they've banned.

Quote:

Who are you, Oh Hypocritical Coward?

Wow. The language you've got. Didn't they teach you clean language in that pocket dictionary? I guess not. Cuz the silly rules didn't leave any space.
The above mentioned example of Florida is one of these hypocritical rules.

Notsobusy

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:07 am

mandr wrote:

I don't think people have a problem with any rules, it's the new, baseless rules that are the problem. Basic tznius and frumkeit, ok. But don't start coming up with new rules, if two years ago you didn't care how many slices a yarmulke has Rolling Eyes

, then why is it suddenly a new rule.
Speaking as someone who went to a school with a lot of rules that came under the guidelines of tznius, but had nothing to do with tznius.

DrMom

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:08 am

amother wrote:

DrMom wrote:

Quote:

Why can't you go to Florida (or Amsterdam, as another poster mentioned)? There are many frum Jews living in Florida and Amsterdam year-round. Are they banned from Monsey schools for life?

Yes, I understand your point of contention (and can't blame you for being annoyed).

But I'm trying to figure out what is inherently wrong with these locations. There are large frum communities in both locations, so how are these places "trief"?

Last edited by DrMom on Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Sep 30 2014, 11:08 am

Squishy wrote:

I don't care if the parents watch TV in their bedroom.

I do care, because what matters is the frum mindset of the family, and it surely comes across to the kids.

I care if my child goes to someone's house and they are exposed to things in a TV or the Internet that I don't approve of.

but you have internet! Only your sons friend is not allowed because you can't trust her. that's precisely my point, everyone is a Judge, and only what each judge approves of is kosher & frum.

Whether or not the parents are hypocrites is not my concern.

I guess we have a different definition of ehrlich

BTW I refuse to sign the requisite piece of paper that I don't have Internet.

still you don't follow school rules.

I don't believe it is my job to watch anyone else's hypocrisy.

But you agree you live in a world that people must lie... to be a respectable human being

Please don't take it personal LOL