Dear People who Condone Hamas's Behavior

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 2:56 pm

Dear People Who are ok with Hamas's Treatment Towards Israel,

Can someone please explain something to me - Aren't you all teaching your children to use their words and not their hands? Don't you all shudder at the news reports of shootings in schools and the killings/kidnappings of innocent people and children? If your child was being bullied in school, wouldn't you turn the world upside down to help him? Wouldn't you be that proud mom or dad marching in a protest against bullying?

Honestly, I don't care if you are a believer or an atheist. And it makes no difference to me whether you are pro or anti Israel. You hate the Jews and support the Arabs? To each his own. But please explain to me how any of you can condone the behavior of Hamas? How can you support the biggest, most magnified version of bullying?? Terrorizing an entire country because they don't like us, they want the land of Israel for themselves, etc.!! How is this any different than the kid who punches the nerd because he wants his snack? Here's your reality check - it's not. Your view of the situation is skewed by politics. Set aside your political view for a second and let your heart feel for the people of Israel. This is not about who deserves to live in Israel or not. This is simply about the fact that no one deserves this kind of treatment. No one deserves to be bullied and terrorized.

(Anon because I wrote this on my FB status and don't want to give away my sn)

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 3:39 pm

I'm sure there are those who are ok with Hamas's behavior - they are the ones who do not stick up for Israel yet are quick to point fingers at how we are being unjust to the civilians in Gaza. Obviously those people are not on Imamother, but it's still a nice thing to read Smile

Scrabble123

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:17 pm

I'm sorry but The behavior of Hamas is not the same as a bully who punches another child in school. I find the comparison of these two things to be repulsive. It is much much more concerning. It is much worse and much deeper. Hamas is a terror organization, not a bully lashing out because of other issues.

ora_43

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:19 pm

fmt4 is right. Most people who are condemning Israel would say that they don't agree with Hamas, but that Israel is wrong to kill civilians in response (as if there were magic bombs in existence that could somehow kill terrorists while posing no threat to others... ).

People who are pro-Hamas, or close to it, would say that you can't call Hamas a bully when it's clearly so much weaker. Poor underdog Hamas with its "homemade" Iranian rockets, up against an army that could flatten Gaza in a minute.

And anyway, they were provoked by Israel stealing their land and putting them under siege in what is essentially a giant open-air prison. So really, they're like the kid who fights back against a bully.

I don't agree with the above nonsense. But those are the points you have to address if you want to argue with people who actually do condone rocket attacks.

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:23 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

No it's not the same...it is much much worse. But it is still an act of terrorizing/bullying/intimidating/controlling/fill in the blank here.

The point is for people to open their eyes and realize what is going on on a simple level. Forget the politics involved for a minute and look at the facts:

Hamas hates us because we are Jewish.
Hamas hates us because they want the land of Israel.

And because of that...

Hamas kidnaps our innocent boys and kills them.
Hamas shoots rockets.
Hamas shoots many rockets.
Hamas threatens Israel.
Hamas uses their own civilians t o protect themselves and their weapons.
Hamas threatens Gaza civilians who don't listen to them.
Hamas keeps telling Israel that they will keep fighting with rockets until they get what they want - death to Israel.

How is this not the biggest act of "bullying" or terrorizing, for use of a better word, that there would possibly be?

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:27 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Whether Israel is right or wrong, it is still wrong for ANYONE to use terror acts as a means to get what they want! Back to teaching our toddlers "Use your words and discuss what you want."

Scrabble123

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:27 pm

A bully is not a terrorist and a terrorist is not a bully. Those words are not interchangeable. I don't even see how your "simple" definition does what you want it to. In fact, if anything, comparing it to bullying makes it even easier to dismiss (which I know was not your intention).

It's far worse than bullying. They are terrorists. I don't think that anyone would disagree with that either. Hamas is publicly labeled as a terrorist organization.

chaiz

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:34 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

The point is how can anyone condone any of Hama's behavori and think it is ok in any situation. Just because they have "grievances" there are proper ways to deal with it. So they should not be getting any any support form the world.

Scrabble123

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:38 pm

chaiz wrote:

I understand her point, but I don't feel it was appropriately expressed because of the comparison to a childhood bully (not to mention than several societies have no issues with schoolyard bullies).

ora_43

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:42 pm

amother wrote:

Whether Israel is right or wrong, it is still wrong for ANYONE to use terror acts as a means to get what they want! Back to teaching our toddlers "Use your words and discuss what you want."

By that logic, Israel needs to stop firing on Gaza and stick to asking Hamas nicely to stop attacking.

But in any case. My point was not that people who are pro-Hamas necessarily say terrorism is right (as I said, I don't actually support any of the pro-Hamas arguments I listed). My point was that they would reject your comparison to bullying. They would say that Israel is the bully, and that Hamas is just fighting back.

Your "reality check" is based on assumptions that people who are anti-Israel don't share.

chatouli

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:58 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Is this a joke? No one condones hamas's behavior. Where in the world did you hear that? People are just concerned with Israel's response to it. But that is NOT the same thing.

Actually, this isn't true. I was feeling masochistic or something and read comments on the NY Times website. Plenty of people think firing rockets into Israel is fine and dandy, a legitimate act of resistance against the oppressor. There are some really sick people out there.

sky

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:09 pm

Read BBC.
Yesterday the headline read: "Israel continues gaza campaign. "
Shouldn't it read the opposite. Or at lease Israel continues Gaza defense.
Most headlines I've seen in the general news has Israel painted as the oppressor. Only until you get to the end of the article do they even hint that Gaza started this.

And the comments on some sites are scary.

ora_43

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:12 pm

I hope my previous posts didn't come across as overly critical.

I think there's a lot of value in your message davka as a message to people who are already pro-Israel, or people in the middle, to help remind them that bullying behavior is bullying behavior no matter who it's coming from. IOW to counter the media message that the stronger party is automatically the bully.

I'm just trying to help, in case you really are arguing with pro-Hamas people (something which I think is often an exercise in futility - but sometimes, surprisingly not so).

MaBelleVie

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:25 pm

Every time one of my friends shares a related article on fb I notice many, many, many pro hamas comments. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly naive. However, I doubt any of them will see your fb post, and they most definitely will not see anything you post on imamother.

fmt4

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 6:12 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Exactly. The majority of these ppl are radical Muslims themselves. There is zero pt in posting this on imamother, where I hope there are no radical Muslims.

Frumdoc

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 6:48 pm

Most of the people I know (liberal, anti religion/ pro humanist, middle class, well educated) who are anti Israel have a fixed belief in certain basic non truthful "facts", which include that the Palestinians are the historic and rightful owners of all of Israel, that Jews only went there after WW2, that it was only guilt by Europe that enabled the State of Israel to be established, that Israel terrorises, tortures and discrimates against Arabs, that Israel deliberately attacks civilians etc etc.

There is no point in discussing such issues with them as fundamentally they do not believe Israel has a right to exist. They are mostly WASPs, with some moderate Hindus/ Muslims. None would claim to be anti semitic, and pride themselves on their tolerance and equality.

None are on this site.

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 9:02 pm

I posted this somewhere else:

Quote:

My dh davens Mincha with a Sefardi guy who knows Arabic. He visited the Arabic sites to see what they are saying about us.

Someone interviewed the Hamas guy who is shooting the missiles from Gaza.

Question: "You are shooting all these missiles but not getting too many hits. What's going on?"

Answer: "My missiles are accurate, but their God is pushing them away."

Shopmiami49

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 2:10 am

ora_43 wrote:

Which we have done so many times in the past...