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Can Men and Women Be Platonic Friends?
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Can Orthodox Men and Women Be Just Friends?
Yes  
 17%  [ 38 ]
No  
 54%  [ 117 ]
Maybe - It depends on the situation and the people involved  
 28%  [ 61 ]
Total Votes : 216



amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 6:20 am
I am conducting an informal study to see how orthodox women feel about being just friends with guys. I am a BT, and while I do think it is possible to be just friends, I think there is always the potential for more brewing under the surface. That's just my opinion. If anyone cares to answer these questions, it would be interesting to see the responses.

Do you think men and women can be friends?
Do you think men and women have different opinions on this subject?
Do you think those raised in a segregated society would have a harder time being platonic friends?
Would someone who grew up in a co-ed environment have an easier time being platonic friends?
Can men and women have platonic friendships in the workplace, school, or professional settings?
Can men and women be platonic friends as two couples (hanging out as couples)?
Would a married person have an easier time being platonic friends?
Would people pick better marriage partners if they knew how to be friends beforehand?
What orthodox group do you identify with? (modern orthodox, hasidic, sephardic, etc.)
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 6:52 am
amother wrote:
I am conducting an informal study to see how orthodox women feel about being just friends with guys. I am a BT, and while I do think it is possible to be just friends, I think there is always the potential for more brewing under the surface. That's just my opinion. If anyone cares to answer these questions, it would be interesting to see the responses.

Do you think men and women can be friends?
Do you think men and women have different opinions on this subject?
Do you think those raised in a segregated society would have a harder time being platonic friends?
Would someone who grew up in a co-ed environment have an easier time being platonic friends?
Can men and women have platonic friendships in the workplace, school, or professional settings?
Can men and women be platonic friends as two couples (hanging out as couples)?
Would a married person have an easier time being platonic friends?
Would people pick better marriage partners if they knew how to be friends beforehand?
What orthodox group do you identify with? (modern orthodox, hasidic, sephardic, etc.)


OK, I'll bite.

I am also BT.

1. I believe that opposite genders can be friends, but should refrain from close (even 100%) platonic friendships, because that can affect a marriage.

2. I think that gender doesn't determine opinion.

3. Yes, even though they may have experienced strong sibling relationships with the opposite gender.

4. Yes, of course, our sense of what is possible is often shaped by our experience.

5. The term "platonic friendship" can have a wide variety of meanings. I believe that many people have positive feelings about a colleague, mentor, protege, teacher, or student. But when those positive feelings lead to an interest in confiding personal lives or spending too much time together, there is a risk to anyone, Jew or non Jew, male or female, sheltered or not, of developing an "emotional affair", where more attention can be paid to the friend than to the spouse.

6. Platonic friendships as couples can work nicely, but it is wisest to limit the more personal exchanges to spouse or same gender friend.

7. Single or married can both be susceptible to crossing lines. The only Platonic friendship I feel truly safe about is one with an old childhood family friend who is gay, and even there, limits are wise.

8. I have seen no evidence that having had cross gender friendships before marriage makes one a better marital partner. As mentioned above, those who grow up in more sheltered homes may have learned how to understand and relate to the opposite gender via siblings or cousins.

8. I call myself JPF. DH is MO, my kids tend yeshivish. All have influenced my thinking.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 7:02 am
Great answers! Thanks for responding. I didn't think about the "gay friend" aspect. That would seem to make the platonic friends thing more possible - at least on his side of things!

Can I ask what JPF stands for? I've never seen this acronym before.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 7:20 am
Just Plain Frum. I refuse to be limited by definitions. Smile
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 7:42 am
One more thought. Sometimes, in thinking about ideals of friendship, we don't pay enough attention to the origins of those ideas. Plato came from a culture where friendships outside of marriage -- and for that matter, male intimate relationships outside of marriage -- were the norm. We Jews put the emotions into marriage first and foremost.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:27 am
OP, if this thread doesn't get a lot of action it's because we're just sitting back and letting Imasinger talk for us ;-)
I can't guarantee I'll agree with everything she'll say but so far - good stuff!
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:35 am
Without specifically answering the question, I'll just say that I've always had close male friends.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:37 am
I am the OP. Thanks! I like the "just plain frum" title. Fantastic thoughts on an interesting subject. I am writing an article about this topic and thought it would be interesting to include the opinions of frum men and women (all anonymous of course) at the end of the piece.

In general, I think that no matter where you fall on the religious spectrum, the general consensus is that it is tricky for men and women to be just friends. For those of us who grew up in a co-ed environment, we know that it is possible, but there is always the potential for growing feelings and hurt feelings that could result in the ending of the friendship. For those that grew up being discouraged from having male/female friendships, they acknowledge those dangers and seek to avoid them altogether instead of navigating a potentially slippery slope. That's just my take on it.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:42 am
I'm not sure you are asking the right question though.

Does it matter if one person has feelings for the other?

Yes I think platonic relationships are plausible in many situations.
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:43 am
I'll bite too. I'm an MO FFB.

1. Some women and some men can be friends. Some people, for whatever reason cannot manage a platonic friendship with the opposite gender.

2. I think different opinions on this subject are based on individuals, not by gender.

3. I think people raised in segregrated societies would have more difficulties, but I don't have that personal experience.

4. Yes, that is my experience, raised in a co-ed society.

5. Yes, men and women (some) can have platonic relationships in school, work. professional settings. Actually, especially in work situations where time together is limited by definition.

6. Couples where both men are friends and both women are friends are great - and hard to find. Couples where the wife is friends with the other DH and vice versa - probably wouldn't work well.

7. Don't know if people would be better marriage partners if they knew how to be friends first.

I have platonic male friends, from way before I was married. I don't think they have any impact on my relationship with DH. I think my girlfriends might have more of an impact.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:46 am
I grew up in a mixed environment. I am FFB. I think a lot of this is determined by how attractive the people involved are. I can make friends with even chassidush men although there is always the underlying s-xuality.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:55 am
Thanks for the well thought out replies.

grace413- I tend to agree that the ability to handle platonic friendships can be an individual thing. I also agree about your comment about couples - if all parties hang out together it can work. This is probably the most commonly accepted type of mixed-gender friendships in the frum world. However, if the husbands and wives of the different couples started spending alone time going out, it wouldn't go over well.

amother - So are you saying that unattractive people would have an easier time being platonic friends with the other gender? There could be some truth to that, but then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Merrymom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 8:59 am
Absolutely not. Whenever I had a friendship with a co-worker or otherwise, it always turned out that the guys privately had feelings for me. I was just their friend but that is not how they saw it. Even the married men who spend a bit too much time talking to you, it's because at some level there's an attraction, it's not just because you both like exchanging recipes.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 9:08 am
I grew up JPF and I always believed in platonic relationships.
I think I was naive though. My one, favorite platonic relationship was with a guy I went to college with.
Inevitably (as in many cases), one of us became more interested in the other and that became very painful. We only became real friends again after we were both married and even now, we don't ever socialize without his wife present.


If you're interested in the male point of view check this out.
http://youtu.be/T_lh5fR4DMA

And then this:

http://youtu.be/FYQmqxQgEBY
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 9:09 am
Merrymom wrote:
Absolutely not. Whenever I had a friendship with a co-worker or otherwise, it always turned out that the guys privately had feelings for me. I was just their friend but that is not how they saw it. Even the married men who spend a bit too much time talking to you, it's because at some level there's an attraction, it's not just because you both like exchanging recipes.
You're obviously s*xier than I am. Usually the men in my life just have feelings for my baked goods or bad advice.
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sunny90




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 9:11 am
I'm not going to answer all of the questions as I feel I'm not qualified to--I'm FFB and never had platonic guy friends, but I do have to say this:
My husband and I are part of a group of couples in which all of us women are very good friends and so are all the men. Most times when we all get together our conversations end up divided by gender, just based on the things we like to talk about Smile. Of course when we're all sitting at the same table our conversations overlap sometimes, but I don't think any of us have ever crossed inappropriate lines. If I saw one of their husbands we could have a friendly conversation, and vice versa with my husband and one of my friends, but I don't think that affects our marriage. We LOVE that we can get together with a few other couples and both have a great time!
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 9:12 am
I dont agree with this, but when I saw the thread title, I had to add this in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAiH5ed1o1Q

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Merrymom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 9:16 am
sunny90 wrote:
I'm not going to answer all of the questions as I feel I'm not qualified to--I'm FFB and never had platonic guy friends, but I do have to say this:
My husband and I are part of a group of couples in which all of us women are very good friends and so are all the men. Most times when we all get together our conversations end up divided by gender, just based on the things we like to talk about Smile. Of course when we're all sitting at the same table our conversations overlap sometimes, but I don't think any of us have ever crossed inappropriate lines. If I saw one of their husbands we could have a friendly conversation, and vice versa with my husband and one of my friends, but I don't think that affects our marriage. We LOVE that we can get together with a few other couples and both have a great time!


I used to socialize with a group of couples just like this, until my friend's dh decided to have an affair with her best friend. I'm not against couples getting together for meals and such, but couples dating is disgusting un Jewish behavior in my opinion, and asking for trouble.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 9:36 am
Hi- I like the way you worded your questions, and a lot of the answers. I think if you're doing an orthodox survey, it might be worth including the Halachic literature on the matter. when I was in seminary (I'm ffb, right wing MO) the teachers were trying hard to convince us to give up our boyfriends and guy-friends, and the most effective tactic was to teach primary sources and more contemporary she'elot v'teshuvot etc on the topic. It seems pretty clear on the part of the Shulchan Aruch: me'od me'od hitrachek min ha'isha, and pirkei avot: al tarbeh sicha, etc. In earlier cultures, casual relationships bw opposite genders were not really done. I think the reason is b/c while it can work, more often it's one sided. It's almost impossible to ignore s/o's gender when relating to them. (think: when harry met sally:) the best romance books and movies take a supposedly "platonic" rel, and have it end in love. In terms of how far ppl go to avoid these interactions and relationships- that varies by community and culture. I think there's a spectrum, and ppl w integrity and maturity will feel their natural boundaries kick in when it becomes even subtly inappropriate. (Ppl w/o integrity will find a way around all the externally imposed gedarim anyway.) But I like the structure and sensitivities that help me avoid potentially uncomfortable situations. So I'm friendly towards my husband's friends and friends' husband, but not friends. Just my 2 cents- good luck w ur research:)
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vicki




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 03 2013, 9:43 am
Some can but that doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't.
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