Next door Neighbor opened store in her house

amother

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:00 am

A neighbor 3 doors down from me has a swimming pool. I have no issue when their family uses the pool. However, when they are not home (they go away for the summer), this pool becomes the local JCC. They have allowed their pool to be used round the clock - sometimes by local families, other times for private lessons to take place. "Appointments" seem to be scheduled all day long in 2 hour increments. You can't imagine the aggravation our family has gone through - we have no menucha. People come flying down our block to drop their kids off, don't even bother stopping at the curb - just stop in the middle of the street. The people who use the pool are not usually from our immediate area so they don't even care if they make a ton of noise and then leave - they don't have to see the neighbors on a regular basis because they don't live here. You try having non-stop noise for roughly 12 hours a day - it's really annoying after a while. And I'm not even dealing with the (il)legality issue. Public pools need to be monitored by the health department. There are so many people swimming there that it can't possibly still be considered a private pool. Needless to say, when they are home, these parties never take place. We've tried addressing the issue with the owner but not much has changed.

I know, after reading through the thread about the store, that many of you think that we all need to just chill out and deal with what G-d sends our way - I get that. But I also I think that somewhere along the way some mitzva observant yidden have forgotten to stop and think about how what they do may affect those around them. Sometimes I feel that everyone feels they are entitled to just do their own thing and the heck with other people.

OP - I really feel for you. I can't offer much more in the way of a practical solution - but sometimes just knowing that other people hear you and empathazie at least makes you realize that you are not alone.

BeershevaBubby

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:05 am

amother wrote:

Then it's time to call the health department when one of these parties is going on. And then you call EVERY TIME someone uses the pool when they're not home.

morah

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:15 am

I am shocked at how many posters here are ok with a complete disregard for the law because "it's parnassa". Including those who I know are the first to scream bloody murder when someone winds up in jail due to shenanigans in the name of "parnassa". These laws exist for a reason, and it's to prevent precisely the situation OP is complaining about. They are not the work of the evil poritz trying to make Jews miserable. Now, since this isn't at the level of theft of or fraud, I don't think it's a huge deal to disregard the rules assuming you clear things with your neighbors- the people these laws are meant to protect. So yes, I think the woman had a moral obligation to run it by her neighbors before setting up shop. I also don't think the OP should run to report- not worth the bad feelings it will create, especially since alternative solutions can easily be worked out. So first step, talk to her and come up with those solutions. I do think the lady with the business ought to pay to implement them. Sorry, starting a business is going to come with costs no matter how hard you try. No such thing as a free lunch. Don't want to pay for a storefront and the necessary permits? Then you have to pay to satisfy your neighbors and keep them quiet. If the shop-keeper is not willing to be reasonable, a din Torah is the next step. I would only report as an absolute last resort.

Barbara

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:25 am

sarahd wrote:

amother wrote:

Op here
I guess I won't go and report her. At least not now. I do think it is chutzpah for her to open a store in her house. Even if she needs money she can be a teacher. I know she has the opportunity to take a teaching job. She decided she can make more money opening a store. Even though it is on my expense.

Wow.

Whose privacy is being invaded here? You know that she could have had a teaching job and therefore has no business doing something else for parnassa? How do you come off deciding for someone else what they should do to earn a living.

I am with those who think you're overreacting. I am also shocked at the people who are telling you to report her. Is this today's attitude? Snitch on your neighbor if she does something to annoy you? Ugh. In my days no one would have dreamed of doing such a thing. And if you do consider it, remember this is your neighbor. You're going to have to continue living with her and also with the rest of your community, who will find out who it was who reported her to the authorities and killed her business.

Clarissa, there is a difference reporting your neighbor so her business gets shut down and reporting a big impersonal business for parking illegally, which doesn't harm their entire business.

Without knowing the precise nature of her complaints, you're just plain wrong.

Imagine that you bought a house on a quiet cul de sac. You paid a premium because you wanted to live where there was no through traffic, making it safer for your kids to play outside. Your next door neighbor opens a home business. Suddenly, there's tons of traffic, and its not safe for your kids to ride bikes or otherwise play in the street. But that's not all. People are blocking your driveway, parking on your lawn. The customers let their kids run around outside while they shop, and since you have the swing set, and your neighbor doesn't, they're in your yard. They broke several of your kids toys that you leave out there, and a couple have even disappeared. Your garden has been trampled. And you feel like you're under a microscope; you can't even get the mail without 5 or 6 people seeing you. You've had it.

Now, would her complaints be frivolous?

The thing is, though, we don't know if its just a minor annoyance (a few more cars around, but not really in her way) or really in her face. We shouldn't assume.

Rutabaga

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:26 am

OP, I only skimmed the thread, but I don't believe anyone has mentioned discussing the issue with your other neighbors. If other people on the block are also annoyed at the situation, then you should send a delegation to the store owner to discuss the problems and come up with some solutions. She might take you as a group more seriously than one neighbor complaining.

If you discover that the other neighbors don't mind, then you might need to take a step back and consider whether you may be overreacting. You can still complain to the store owner, but your complaints alone might not carry much weight with her.

Hatzlacha!

Barbara

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:29 am

morah wrote:

Actually, it "does" bother me if she's running an illegal business. But I don't know if she is. Even residential zoning allows some home-based businesses, in most places, with limits on numbers of visitors, etc. IOW, we just plain don't know if it is an illlegal business.

Clarissa

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:58 am

sarahd wrote:

amother wrote:

Wow.

I knew someone would make that point, and you're right, but the problem and annoyance is the same. In our case it made crossing the street a little more dangerous (you couldn't see when cars were coming) and it screwed up the parking on the block (not an issue for me, since I don't have a car) and was a general nuisance. But I know that if I bought a house on a nice residential street I'd be furious if someone opened a business there. I expect residential areas to be residential. I like privacy. Nobody's talking about "killing" the woman's business. It's about getting her to be more considerate or she'll have to comply with the law, and move her business to a business area. Doesn't seem so complicated. It's not like she's had this business there for decades.

Fox

Mon, May 13 2013, 8:12 am

Moshiach is on the way, ladies! Barbara, Marina, and I are all in complete agreement!

I can't get a clear picture whether the OP has specific complaints or whether it's the principle of the thing that bothers her.

If there are genuine, specific complaints, such as inconsiderate parking; inconvenient hours; too much noise, etc., then I agree with the posters who suggest speaking with the neighbor. She can at least try to force some order. For example, a number of women in my community have home-based stores, and almost all of them have signs posted reminding customers to be considerate of neighbors in various ways. I remember years ago, one had a sign that said something like, "Looking forward to the upcoming big sale? Don't annoy my neighbors too much, and IY"H, there will be sales for many years to come!"

If it's the general principle of the thing, then I think the OP is on very shaky ground. As Barbara says, many municipalities allow for small home-based businesses, even those bringing in customers. In fact, most cities are becoming more liberal about this, not less.

Even cities where home-based businesses are illegal often have a patchwork quilt of regulations that result in only the most egregious cases being addressed. For example, I remember when our company had an office in New York, we discovered that it is illegal to have an office in a home where a half-dozen programmers show up each morning and work all day. However, it is legal for a physician or dentist to have an office in a residence -- with patients coming and going and parking all over, even in the evening or on weekends.

When our lawyer contacted the zoning enforcement board of the borough or whoever is in charge, he was basically told, "Unless it's a significant safety danger to the community or it's affecting a whole neighborhood, we don't have the resources to get involved." The representative told our lawyer that the cases they tracked down generally involved businesses where chemicals are stored; excessively noisy businesses, like motorcycle repair shops operating out of private garages; or home-based nightclubs where alcohol is sold.

So it's entirely possible that even reporting the neighbor might result in less sympathy than has been generated on imamother. As other posters have suggested, I'd urge the OP to speak with the neighbor in a friendly manner; wish her continued success; and mention some specific problems that might be addressed (not just, "I'm annoyed that you have a store in your home.")

Also, bear in mind that you don't want to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. Right now, you have a presumably nice frum family that isn't operating their business on Shabbos or Yomim Tovim. Drive them away, and you could easily find yourselves enjoying the company of a couple of stoner dudes who spend their summer Saturdays and Sundays outside, lounging shirtless while playing Pink Floyd at full volume and swilling beer.

amother

Mon, May 13 2013, 8:54 am

amother wrote:

Sorry OP - I didn't mean to take over the thread - just wanted you to know I relate. Perhaps this pool conversation can be continued in a new thread, if anyone has any positive suggestions.

Thanks.

Have you asked them not to use the pool before or after specific hours (ie not before 9 am and not after 8 pm? What has been their response to that? Have you given them specific requests or just general "I don't like the way you use your pool"?

We have a similar situation and our neighbors have tried to be really accommodating (not to mention that they let us use their pool for free Smile

Can I assume you do not have use of the pool? Why not?

I know another neighbor of ours was really upset and called a lawyer about it and was told there's nothing illegal about renting out your pool on a limited basis. . . I don't know where you live of course so it may be different.

You mention that other neighbors enjoy the pool or would be too intimidated to say anything to the owners. What are they intimated by? Do the owners in general not get along with/listen to people?

harriet

Mon, May 13 2013, 8:56 am

Shana_H wrote:

Re: the private pool that's become a public pool, all I can say is OMG, where do you live? Is there a lufeguard on duty at all times? Is there access to EMS / Hatzolah? G-d forbid a child drowns. These homeowners are looking at a huge lawsuit, - from the city! To say that this kind of madness only happens when the homeowners are away is no excuse, they are solely responsible to secure their home, to include their yard and pool when they are away!

Where I live lots of people rent out their pools and yes, of course there is a lifeguard (or parent if it's a family) on duty at all times! In this day and age, no one is that stupid. . .

21young

Mon, May 13 2013, 9:01 am

I didn't read the whole thread, but I can't get over all the people who urged the OP to report! I have the exact same situation, last year my next door neighbor opened a store in her house. I am happy for her when customers come, even if sometimes parking is annoying, because I am happy that she is making parnassah. It never occurred to me to be annoyed!

And if you do plan on reporting, at least give her landlord a fair warning! Tell the landlord nicely that XYZ is bothering you, and if it's not resolved you will report her. You gotta live and let live.

Regarding the pool, it's a whole different issue because of safety. In that situation I would do the same thing - tell the homeowners that if this arrangement doesn't stop you will tell the health department, simply because it's a safety issue.

If any issue bothers you enough you should be man enough to face the violator head on and let them know that you are the one who reported them.

amother

Mon, May 13 2013, 9:18 am

21young wrote:

I own a pool, and WHOA! All my neighbors drive me crazy to swim in it all day, we are verrry makpid on keeping the fence locked at all times, on having a mature/responsible adult or lifeguard on duty when people are swimming, we have major insurance on it AND have been in contact with the Board of Health, AND yes we occasionally rent it out to people (families) who beg us nicely Smile

Why is this a major safety issue that has to be reported to the health department? Am I missing something here? Should I no longer be allowing anyone to swim in my pool aside from my own children? I think a lot of people will be upset (including neighbors who love it, or claim they love it) but honestly, it's a lot of aggravation (and money!) for me, and reading these posts, perhaps there are people who are really secretly seething about it and for some reason aren't telling me-what do I need this for? I think I'm being nice (at my expense largely) and now it seems like it's a huge issue, I'm thinking I should stop allowing people to use it anymore.

Have I been reading the situation wrong all these years (only about 5)?