Next door Neighbor opened store in her house

Clarissa

Tue, May 14 2013, 1:37 pm

amother wrote:

faigie wrote:

I honestly do not understand why people are attacking the OP.
She invested good money into her house in a private residential area. She now has to deal with an illegal rental next door! This extra noise lowers the property value of her own home!
Let the rental person MOVE to to a legal store. There is NO excuse to blame the OP.

No one is blaming the OP for feeling the way she does.
She's rather being attacked for wanting to deal with it in a rather inappropriate (selfish) manner.
She was suggested several appropriate ways of dealing with her dilemma, but apparently she seems to rather protect her kavod.......

Please stop posting as amother. We can't tell if you're one person, two people, three people. Enough with the amother stuff.

amother

Tue, May 14 2013, 1:42 pm

amother wrote:

faigie wrote:

The posters are saying to limit the hours and limit the parking to the next block. Both are unworkable. If she talks to her neighbor and tells her to do this and the neighbor shines her on, what then?

She becomes public enemy # 1 if she goes to a BD.

Fox

Tue, May 14 2013, 2:26 pm

amother wrote:

faigie wrote:

Why is it unworkable to ask the neighbor to place some limitations on the hours or scope of her business?

I'm not entirely sure what "shining on" means -- I checked UrbanDictionary.com, but none of the definitions made sense in this context. I'm going to assume from the context that it means "to ignore, downplay, or obfuscate."

So if I understand correctly, your argument is that because the neighbor might not be responsive, the OP shouldn't even attempt to do the adult, mentchlikeit thing?

And if doing the correct thing halachically makes a person "public enemy #1" in the neighborhood, then the OP is living in a terrible place and a home-based store is the least of her troubles. Beis din should be the first resort for Jews involved in difficult disagreements, not the last.

Moreover, does anyone here actually believe that the neighbor won't eventually find out who complained? Between common sense, process of elimination, and loose tongues (including those of enforcement authorities, sometimes), there is little hope for the OP of remaining anonymous for long. How will the OP look when it emerges that she didn't even attempt to talk to her neighbor before lodging a complaint?!

Having seen this on my own block, I can assure you that a perceived lack of maturity in handling the matter will be held against the OP by people who might have agreed with her regarding the store itself.

I would challenge everyone from all walks of observant life to do this: ask your rav or posek whether this situation should be handled by (a) immediately reporting the home-based store to law enforcement authorities; or (b) attempting to talk to the neighbor; involve a third-party if needed; and if those approaches are unsuccessful, taking her to beis din.

This is not rocket science, and if the OP is legitimately bothered by the store, she does have recourse. However, if she is Torah observant, placing an anonymous phone call to law enforcement authorities without first attempting to solve the problem through other channels is not one of her options.

amother

Tue, May 14 2013, 2:51 pm

Fox wrote:

amother wrote:

faigie wrote:

I know you are right. I would never follow through myself on reporting a Jew.

But BDs have no enforcement powers. Their judgments are often ignored while their summons are not. They are expensive. OP after time and expense could get the right to go to court against the neighbor. That whole process is also expensive.

The neighborhood can suspect who did it but as Torah observant jews we get to be dklz'd.

I hate that the store owner's disrespect costs OP her privacy. To solve this it could cost OP her money without even a sure outcome. If she does ask a sheila she has to be prepared to accept the outcome.

The only outcome OP wants is a return to her quiet residential neighborhood and that ain't gonna happen cheaply without code enforcement getting involved.

BTW if you are so concerned about the government officials leaking OP's name, OP could report anonymously. They can't leak what they don't know.

amother

Thu, May 16 2013, 11:31 pm

amother wrote:

Op here
I'm not friends with her. She is even snubbing me. Our children are at different stage in life and we don't have anything in common But we are nice to each other and nothing is out of sorts. I know it is not legal and it is really not fair for her to open a store after she just moved in. The landlord probably doesn't care. I know that being moser her is a huge thing and like one poster said I might be on the other side of the fence chas veshalom one day. Still it is not the right thing to do without asking me. Wwyd??

My feeling is that OP simply doesn't like her neighbor and in reality it's not so much about the business that is bothering her as is the personality or whatever else it is the that the two aren't get along somehow... I also don't believe that there is constant traffic in the new business of 'women's clothing', that someone is running from her private home...

OP has not even mentioned once about any of the other neighbors being bothered by the business on the block... why shouldn't anyone else be bothered as well?? She admitted that her house was NOT attached to that neighbor so it's not that the people are literally passing by her door...

OP why is it that only you out of all the families on the block are so bothered about this??
For all we amother's know you might be exaggerating and blowing this whole story out of proportion so you can get some validation from us and thus go ahead with your irrational plan.

Naturally you can't even discuss it with your neighbors because you know that you've been blowing this totally out of proportion and they certainly will look at you as the bad guy... something you've been fearing all along.... Well perhaps rightfully so!!~
Just my two cents....

abound

Fri, May 17 2013, 4:02 am

amother wrote:

Op here.
I never said that I am going to report her. At the beginning of the thread all the posts were for reporting her so I got convinced to do so. Later on I said I was thinking about building a fence. Reporting her would be a huge step and I'm not going to do it now if ever. If I would consider it I would call a Posek or a big rav first. I still think that it is not right to open the business on my street. And probably she didnt ask a rav about it. As I know this woman she would not be willing to discuss anything and there is no point talking to her. The other neighbors are not frum and not home much. They don't know that she has a store in her house because she only advertise in the frum circles.

You pretty much summed it up! Maybe stop subscribing to the frum papers and you will not know either. Wink

amother

Fri, May 17 2013, 6:09 am

amother wrote:

But since strange cars have been constantly circling and parking on the block, the neighbors must have noticed some commotion after all, no??
Or perhaps they happen to be in good terms with her....
and are genuinely happy for her.....
unlike their frum neighbor.....

Barbara

Fri, May 17 2013, 8:30 am

Mama Bear wrote:

Its funny, I would love to have some company & see frum people passing my front yard so I can have someone to shmooze with... you seem a bit antisocial.

Nothing wrong with being antisocial or, more likely, something of an introvert or a loner.

Nothing wrong with wanting privacy in your own yard.

Especially when OP chose to live where she does in order to avoid being in the thick of things. She is who she is. Or, as my father would say, that's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors.

That doesn't answer the question as to what she should do, of course. A loquacious neighbor need not change because she moves in next door to an introvert. Eventually, however, they should come to some understanding. That may not be possible here.

OP, I still think there's some things that you should do:

(1) Research your local zoning laws relating to at-home businesses. You need to know if they are completely barred, restricted, or pretty well accepted in your area.

(2) At the same time, see if things calm down to a level you can accept, particularly if the zoning might permit the business.

(3) Even if you don't think she will respond positively, it is the right thing to do to approach her before taking any further action. Be concrete, including costs. (Eg, you intend to build a fence. It will cost X. Since it is largely because of her, you expect her to pay 60% of the cost.) Also explain concretely what you will do if she does not comply, or offer alternatives. (Eg, tell her that the local zoning would allow her business except if it disturbs neighbors. You are disturbed by noise, invasion of your yard, the fact that her business increases traffic and parking beyond residential capacity. The fence will make it livable for you, so that you will not need to file a complaint with the city. However, if not ....)

amother

Fri, May 17 2013, 8:35 am

Mama Bear wrote:

Its funny, I would love to have some company & see frum people passing my front yard so I can have someone to shmooze with... you seem a bit antisocial.

OP, it appears that your neighbor is probably there to stay for a long while...
You may want to try to build a good relationship with her even if it isn't from the heart at first. I know it's not easy breaking the cold cycle, but eventually it may benefit the both of you.

Hopefully you can eventually grow to be sincerely happy for your neighbor, so you can feel happy within yourself as well...

Allow me to share my personal experience that happened over two decades ago;

We moved to a new neighborhood, rented a condomeniem on the second floor of a three family complex. On the third floor, one flight above us lived a family in their own condo.
Being that we were from different communities I didn't think of it as an upcoming issue because it didn't matter to me because the block and the neighborhood were from all mixes. We resided in a big popular city at the time.
It didn't occur to me that my family will not be welcome and excepted just because we were not molded from the same exact dough, and being that I am the social and friendly type I didn't expect the upcoming surprising events that shockingly greeted us upon settling at our new residency.

In the beginning when I would bump into Mrs. Upstairsy at the shared stairway, I would genuinely smile and greet her, while in return all I received was a cold and bitter grin on her face, and no greeting back in return embarrassed

This uncomfortable behavior went on for the first two three weeks or longer until...... I suddenly get a frantic knock on my door!! Mrs. Upstairsy frowned at me bitterly and with her loudest voice yelled at me that my kids are not getting along with her kids. My kids were annoying and disturbing hers and blah blah blah. I decided then and there that this is my opportunity to break it or make it!! I immediately invited her into my apartment and offered her a glass of water. Asked her to kindly calm down and guaranteed her that I will take this matter very seriously and take action immediately. The more she scolded the more I demonstrated my acknowledgement towards her claims, and the more I apologized....
I assured her that my kids will be punished anytime I hear of any wrong doings on their part. I 'begged' her to please not hesitate to inform me of the slightest wrong doings of my kids....

And that was the breaking point of our forth came relationship!!

Needless to say that from there on we became not only the best of neighbors, but the best of friends for years to come!!! We developed a genuine love and caring for each other for years to come. We shared simchas and sorrows and helped each other as needed.
We don't reside there anymore but still keep in close contact B"H.

OP the reason I shared my story with you, was to give you the chizuk that changes for the better are doable. True as it is; It takes two to ponder, but it takes only one to break the ice! Go for it!!

"טוב שכן קרוב מאח רחוק" - Better a close neighbor than a distant brother.

vintagebknyc

Fri, May 17 2013, 9:28 am

amother wrote:

I know the people who are shopping and I'm home with my kids and outside in the yard....

Do I sense jealousy / bitterness?!!

Dunno, maybe I'm misinterpating.... my apologies...

I don't sense anything of the sort.

what I'm sensing (and not even as subtly as sensing) is the the OP is dealing with a possible legal issue having to do with the privacy of the home she owns. because it would be a chillum hashem for her to even investigate whether or not the neighbor with the store is breaking the law, lots of people are victim blaming and telling her that she's overreacting. and that she could interfere with the store owner's parnassa.

I don't follow the thoughts, above. I think it's rude to do this to your neighbor (open a loud store in a place that might be illegal) without at least a discussion first. also? might be illegal. were I the OP I'd go to her town's hall to find the rules about this.

depending on her location, the OP has certain rights to quiet enjoyment of her home. this store could be violating those rights.

why everyone is bashing the OP, I don't know. it's ok for the neighbor to open an illegal store, but not ok for the OP to report it?

Merrymom

Fri, May 17 2013, 9:43 am

vintagebknyc wrote:

amother wrote:

I know the people who are shopping and I'm home with my kids and outside in the yard....

Do I sense jealousy / bitterness?!!

Dunno, maybe I'm misinterpating.... my apologies...

It's not about rights. She's in her rights but the way you treat other people is the way Hashem treats you. Maybe this is the only way this woman can have a parnassah.