"If her rabbi says it's ok then it is" - is that r

Happy18

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 9:31 am

amother wrote:

Ok. That's what I thought.
So can we all stop acting like we're allowed to do whatever we want as long as there happens to be a rabbi out there who 'lets' us? I see this all the time in threads. When people are talking about things that are halacha as it is laid down in widely-followed halachic sources, I don't really care if you found a modern-day rabbi with semicha from somebody or other who 'holds' differently. That's not called "there are different opinions about this." Sometimes there are different opinions in halacha. Other times, it's just someone deciding something else makes more sense to him. Which really, is not ok.

Really there arent different opinions? Thats news to me. Have your husband open a gemara sometime and show you that all through Jewish history there have been disagreements on halacha. oh and saying that its not ok for people to, I'll use your word, modern-day rabbi with semicha from somebody, sounds completely intolerant and judgmental.

syrima

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 9:39 am

I learned that if you ask a Rav about a stain and he paskens its OK, then even if he is really wrong you do not bear any guilt "after 120". That is what the Torah refers to as "not veering from what they (the rabbis) tell you either right or left."

But then there are other questions people ask rabbis. Such as what to name their kids. or if they should stay married. If a rav gives his opinion on that you still need to use your own sechel to see fi that is right for YOU, bc you know the reality, KWIM?

1387

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 9:48 am

If a Rabbi with Yiras Shamayim gives a psak, I believe he has Siyatta Dishmaya to rule properly. I don't think we are held accountable for following a psak in good faith. BUT if we follow a psak that someone else got or "Rabbi-shop", yes, I think that's problematic.

GreenEyes26

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 9:55 am

No, what the OP is railing on about is "modernishe" people doing "whatever the want because some "modern" rabbi says so"....meaning, things SHE thinks are wrong, and things SHE doesn't agree with. Love it when amothers become holier-than-thou internet rabbis.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 10:05 am

5*Mom wrote:

She said "modern-day" not Modern. Sheesh. She means contemporary. This applies across the board: Chareidi, MO, Chassidish, Litvish, Ashkenazi, Sefaradi, etc.

Yes, this. And I do think its relevant, as I doubt there was ever a period in Jewish history with as many rabbis as you will find today. The question is, are all of them worthy of respect as rabbis?

ora_43

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 10:45 am

Ruchel wrote:

Is the rabbi a stripe of Orthodox?
Is he not in cherem?
Does he give normal psak for his circles?
Is he not rejected by his similar peers?

All good? Go ahead. And too bad if others are jealous or threatened by your psak.

I mostly agree, but I don't think "normal psak for his circles" is necessary if it's a "big" rav, ie, someone known to be very knowledgeable and to have yirat shamayim.

I have 20-something friends who got semicha not long ago, and WADR to them I would doubt their psak if they started giving psakim that are very different from the norm. But a Rav Feinstein or Rav Soloveitchik or Rav Elyashiv, etc, deserves respect even with a radically new psak.

5*Mom

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 11:15 am

syrima wrote:

This passuk does not apply to your posek or mine. This passuk refers specifically and exclusively to the Sanhedrin, which we do not have today.

Happy18

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 12:01 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

5*Mom wrote:

She said "modern-day" not Modern. Sheesh. She means contemporary. This applies across the board: Chareidi, MO, Chassidish, Litvish, Ashkenazi, Sefaradi, etc.

Yes, this. And I do think its relevant, as I doubt there was ever a period in Jewish history with as many rabbis as you will find today. The question is, are all of them worthy of respect as rabbis?

This is true, but it has been my experience that many men who attain smicha do not pasken on major halachic issues.

WhoAmINow

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 12:21 pm

I find myself wondering whether any of us has asked her rav about this issue....

That's not just a joke. If not our rav, whom should we ask when we have questions on how to be a good Jew?

I also have never met a rav whose psak I would take seriously who did not himself sometimes have questions and ask shailas or seek daas Torah to resolve them. I have never had the honor of meeting a posek ha-dor, but I'm told that even they have situations in which they ask.

How to decide *who* should be one's rav is a terrifically important question, and one that I'm not dealing with just now, except to note that there seems to be a consensus here (in which I join) that "rabbi shopping" until one finds the psak for which one has a taivah in the first place is not a good way to go. If we want to go into more detail on that, should it perhaps be a different thread?

MaBelleVie

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 12:56 pm

Happy18 wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

5*Mom wrote:

She said "modern-day" not Modern. Sheesh. She means contemporary. This applies across the board: Chareidi, MO, Chassidish, Litvish, Ashkenazi, Sefaradi, etc.

Yes, this. And I do think its relevant, as I doubt there was ever a period in Jewish history with as many rabbis as you will find today. The question is, are all of them worthy of respect as rabbis?

This is true, but it has been my experience that many men who attain smicha do not pasken on major halachic issues.

What about minor halachic issues? It has happened that my husband was in shul on Shabbos and the rav announced xyz or told the gabbai to do xyz. My husband respectfully approached the rav and explained why he believed that halacha is different. When he looked it up, the rav agreed that he had been wrong.

Who knows how often this comes up with this particular rav, and in other shuls or settings too?

Happy18

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 1:04 pm

All you just said was that rabbeim make mistakes. I'm guessing this was not a major decision. The rav admitted he was wrong which I think takes tremendous humility to be able to do so.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 1:15 pm

Happy18 wrote:

All you just said was that rabbeim make mistakes. I'm guessing this was not a major decision. The rav admitted he was wrong which I think takes tremendous humility to be able to do so.

Yes, but the question we're exploring here is whether every psak must be accepted at face value. A rav with a solid track record may be trustworthy. Someone who tries promoting novel or radical psakim without necessarily proving himself first in other areas may not be accurate. And there are some people in rabbinical positions who make too many mistakes.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 1:52 pm

Happy18 wrote:

True, but then an intelligent person wont rely on a rav who makes too many mistakes.

This is not necessarily true. Someone can be intelligent and not very familiar with halacha, so it wouldn't be apparent that the rav is often mistaken. Or, if the psak is something that people are happy to hear, they may not want to look deeper and see if the rav is really trustworthy. Etc.

Happy18

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 1:54 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Or, if the psak is something that people are happy to hear, they may not want to look deeper and see if the rav is really trustworthy. Etc.

This is a huge issue, but a person who is being honest with themselves about halacha will investigate to make sure the rav they go to is trustworthy.

chani8

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 2:06 pm

amother wrote:

I am the amother who is misquoted by OP.

What I said was that if FS's Rabbi poskens that something is correct for FS, then it is right for FS.

This is in response to a discussion where FS says that she and her husband hand over a crying baby; or if they are outside and there is no place keys, then they can pass them to eat other as long as their hands don't touch.

The pertinent part of the thread was removed. Posters were saying this is not correct. There were also posters saying how this will leads conservative or reform Judiasim with a 50% intermarriage rate without regard for the conversion.

My poor benighted simple post was pointing out that FS has a right to follow Halacha as interpreted by her Rabbi.

I'd like to read the thread where this was originally discussed. Link, please.

chani8

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 2:23 pm

amother wrote:

I see this so often on these boards and it just gets me wondering. Really? We have no responsibility for what we do as long as we managed to find a rabbi who says it's ok? Won't we ultimately be held responsible in shamayim for WHO we choose as our rabbi?

This is a question you should ask your LOR. Cool

chani8

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 2:29 pm

amother wrote:

WADR, I would guess that you don't like the idea that there are lenient opinions, when you've been taught that your strict version of halacha is bottom line halacha.

Or maybe you are bothered that some people insert common sense into halachic observance. . . instead of, for instance, running to ask their LOR if they can pass the baby or do they really have to set the baby on the ground. . .

sarahd

Tue, Aug 21 2012, 3:40 pm

5*Mom wrote:

Another case in point: Cheit HaEgel
In an effort to forestall the plan, Aharon HaKohen told the men to go home and collect all their wives' jewelry to be contributed toward the fashioning of the egel. The women didn't listen. To Aharon HaKohen. And we are still being rewarded for this today.

I know that this is beside your point, but Aharon told the men to get their wives' jewelry. He didn't tell the wives to give it. And in fact, he was banking on the hope that they wouldn't.