Time out is a LIE

Gold Member Joined: Jul 30 2009 Posts: 1691

I don't believe in time out. I don't have a better disciplinary measure at my disposal, but I have no idea how anyone who says time out WORKS gets it to work, so I've decided you're all just making it up.

So, I beg of you, explain it to me.

Does your child care if you threaten a time out?
Where is your time out spot?
How do you get your child to go there and stay there?

My 2.5 year old son does not respond to threats of punishments of any kind (ex. "Please pick up your blocks." (after being ignored) "If you don't pick up the blocks, I'll put them away and you won't be able to play with them." or "No hitting Ema. Little boys who hit get put in time out.").

My apartment is a tiny basement, and the only "time out"-ish spot is up the half flight of stairs in our living room that leads to the front door. That's the closest I can get to a place that I can block him into physically -- he'll climb off any chair and out of the crib and pack-n-play.

I need a doggie kennel where he can be safely locked in. Mad

This pregnant lady can't take shlepping a 35-pound thrashing toddler back to the time-out spot OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER...
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Posted: Sun, Aug 12 2012, 9:37 pm Post subject: re: time out is a LIE

lol, yeah I remember being at that stage in life and feeling it was easier to give in then shlep with a heavy kid and a heavy belly to time out again and again but in the long run it does pay off. you just have to be persistent and summon up all the patience you can. hang in there..

Silver Member Joined: Jun 08 2010 Posts: 528

For my 3 yr old, time out means a chance to calm down and think of a better way to do things. Yes, she cries, but I don't give a time limit. I say "when you are ready to calm down and stop hitting you can come out" (of her room).
Either I go in after a few minutes, calm her down and talk to her or she comes out and says "Mommy I'm ready to talk nicely."
Obviously each time is different, she's not a robot, but the point is that time out is NOT a punishment, it's a time to calm down and take a step out of the situation. Afterwards we find a solution. "Are you ready to talk to Mommy with your words?" etc

Gold Member Joined: Jul 02 2010 Posts: 1710

(I have three kids- a 5 year old boy, 3 year old girl, and an infant)

my son has had a lot of behavioral issues in his 5 years. we have done time out, taking away toys/privileges/etc, token system....they all worked for a while, but then....back to square one. now, I send him upstairs for 5 minutes. (one minute for every year of age, so if my daughter were to be sent upstairs, it would be for three minutes) if he hits, kicks, throws, doesnt listen, is disrespectful....he goes upstairs. its getting easier to get him to go now, because he knows that for every time that I have to tell him again to go up, he will get an extra minute. its not so much that I want to keep him in one spot, not being able to do anything, its more that I just want to remove him from the situation. if he wants to read for 5 minutes thats fine, as long as hes calm when he comes back down. one time he was so wacky that he started jumping on his bed when I sent him up. believe it or not, by the time he was ready to come back down, he was much calmer, because he got out a lot of excess energy by jumping, instead of by hitting/kicking/etc.

its definitely harder to find a good place to go in a small apt, which is one of the reasons we moved when I was pregnant with my daughter. she has also been sent upstairs, but she mostly just sits at the top of the steps or goes to her bed and takes a short rest.

im slightly exhausted, as I havent really slept all that much in the past few months, so I hope my response was helpful and made sense.
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Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5893

I definitely don't have it down to a science myself, but this brings to mind what I read in 1-2-3 Magic that you have to invest in some initial training to get time out to work for the future. I.e. if you set a consequence (time out) but the kid doesn't comply with the consequence (climbing out of crib or whatever) then they get a higher level consequence (a spank? I'm very opposed to corporal punishment in general but this is supposed to be a very temporary measure just to teach them that consequences mean business.)

Also, I use punishments (for me, for now, that's time out in crib which DD has not yet learned to climb out of) only for the most drastic circumstances, like purposely hitting/kicking/biting (if it's just a mistake slap in a hyper moment I sometimes even overlook it, but with malintent I feel it needs a punishment) For other things I try to be more positive and/or flexible. For example, picking up blocks in my book wouldn't get any threats or anything. But if she's asking for play dough or to read a book or whatever, I tell her she'll get it when the blocks are cleaned up. And if she chooses to let that take all day and not get the next activity for hours and hours, so be it - I stuck with my word, and to me the blocks are not worth any more struggle than that.

Executive Member Joined: Oct 28 2011 Posts: 418

I don't believe in timeouts.
Children need us to show them and guide them what yes to do. I'll say to to my 2 yr old"mommy needs help cleaning up can you help ooh this is fun." if he says no I'll say only mommy can clean I love cleaning up and he comes running.

If he spills water on the floor I don't say"NO" that doesn't tell him what to do. I give him a rag and say here this needs to be cleaned up .

If he hurts the baby I say remember this is how the baby likes to be touched gentle good job and talk about it at a calmer time.

How to talk to kids by faber and malish is a great book also the happiest toddler on the block

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5893

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Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7617

Silver Member Joined: Dec 30 2010 Posts: 737

I'm half asleep and editing photos as I write this, so hopefully you'll get the gist. The time out isn't the punishment. The punishment is pulling the kid away from the situation (picking up bodily and removing the child from the toys, leaving the store, walking away from the group of friends, taking the child out of the pantry) and having an immediate discussion where you show your emotions as vividly as possible without losing your temper. Explaining that the reason mommy is disappointed/angry/sad is something that you did. Emotionally show an angry/sad/hurt face and then say "You made mommy (insert word). That's NOT how we behave. You DONT like it when you are (insert emotion) and you don't like it when someone hits you/gets sarcastic/angry/etc."

Always refrain from yelling or screaming when you give "the talk" (yeah, easier said than done). Oftentimes a visual cue is in order. -- You hit mommy with your new toy hammer? Well, now the whole construction kit is going on top of the bookshelf during your time out. Rearranging the environment = has a big impact. Rearranging not working? For an older child, this is when you whip out the loss of priviledges routine. (Brochie keeps hitting Shira? Well, Brochie doesn't get to go with Abba to shul. Shul is for children who can keep their hands to themselves.)

If the kid did something dangerous, explain it. Part of parenting is teaching emotional regulation and environmental awareness.

Follow that up with a time out.
The time out = giving him/her the chance to reflect that you made someone sad/hurt/angry. Without the explanation though, a timeout is just an opportunity to go play with toys in his/her bedroom.

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5893

I think DD is just not yet mature enough to understand the emotional component of making someone else hurt/sad/etc. She knows about happy and sad, she runs to give hugs and kisses when someone's crying or has a booboo, but she just doesn't get the reality of "kicking makes mommy a booboo." She especially doesn't understand upset - I think I once told her I was upset because she was throwing food or something, and now every so often out of the blue when she's looking for some fun she'll say "Mommy is very upset!" even when I'm totally not. Sigh. She's only 21 months old so I'm not terribly worried about her social/emotional development at this point, it's just frustrating because she is so verbal and rational that it doesn't seem to fit that she gets such a kick out of physical blows.

Diamond Member Joined: Mar 11 2010 Posts: 3066

My kids didn't take to it either at that age. It started working when they got a little older.

I don't call it time out. Time out in this house is for when I need a break in my room. For them, I count down from 5. At zero they better be on their way up or the 5 minutes gets doubled to ten. Come out before time is up and it starts from scratch. They are sent to their room.

Nobody's kids are perfect, even though some people like you to think so. It takes a ton of emotional energy to stick to discipline.

Moderator Joined: Mar 29 2005 Posts: 18289

I don't threaten time-out. I don't want my children to be scared of me!

It works fine for me. It's not my solution to all misbehaviors, and is used as its inherent purpose should be: to remove my child from something (s)he needs to be, most usually other people.

Yes, my 2.5 yo will cry and be upset as she's still learning that it doesn't mean I don't love her, but my older kids don't have the same reaction. One kid may stalk off and complain the whole time to test me, but for the most part, they stay in their room and watch the clock. Sometimes they read or play quietly, and it helps them to calm down.

I do not use it as a consequence for, say, spilling the milk. If they did that, they are expected to clean it up with a shmatta. If they won't and instead are making more of a mess or preventing me from cleaning it up -- yes, time out it is, to remove them from the misbehavior. But as I said, usually it's for removing the child from other people...
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Posted: Mon, Aug 13 2012, 12:01 pm Post subject: re: time out is a LIE

I saw it being very effective on Super Nanny. I personally have never really bothered with it, although sometimes I've put my children in their crib when they're just really acting up. Basically I don't discipline a 2 year old, they're so sensitive that if I raise my voice they're in tears. A small potch on the hand works for a 3 year old when necessary although generally a sharp tone works just as well most of the time. I rarely have to dicipline my kids at all. I just take away their things etc. or won't take them out, or won't allow them to watch a movie or the like. Consequences, that's my punishment method.
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Posted: Mon, Aug 13 2012, 1:22 pm Post subject: re: time out is a LIE

IME it totally depends on the child. I had one child that I just counted, not usually past one, and she would sit down where ever she was and stop doing what ever it was that she was doing instantly every time. That means, if we were in the grocery store and she was walking and touching things on the shelf, I would ask her not to, if she did it again I would say "one" and she would sit herself down on the floor.

Then I had another child who I had to sit down in timeout to think when she was out of control. Telling her "no" would make her cry and she wouldn't hear what the no was about or why, but I could sit her down in timeout and talk to her and have her think.

Then came the one who didn't "get" counting or timeouts. LOL She would get hysterical over either one. She was/is a real people pleaser and letting her know you are upset will likely end with her bawling in her bed. It is much more effective to quietly and calmly tell her what we want from her.

I have done timeouts with some success with my son, but mostly talking to him is all he needs.

IME there is no one way to discipline all children. They each need to be disciplined according to their own temperaments.
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Diamond Member Joined: Aug 07 2006 Posts: 2556

Time Out is a "reset button," not a punishment. Remove a child from an overstimulating situation, give him or her a chance to regroup, and try again.

Gold Member Joined: Sep 12 2011 Posts: 1940

Beginner Joined: Nov 02 2010 Posts: 12

I didn't read all the responses, so maybe other mothers covered what I'm going to say which I've learned from a number of sources: Playful Parenting (GREAT book), Dina Friedman, and the Nurtured Heart Approach.

Time out is controversial since often a misbehaving kid is desperately telling you he needs connection, but doesn't know how to say that in an appropriate way. So sticking a kid begging for connection away from everyone by himself is at best useless. That's one reason kids run back out. So he (the Playful Parenting author) actually suggests "couch time" or something like that instead. Your behavior is trying to tell me you need something, so let's connect, instead of go be by yourself.
(When Mommy's in a good mood and everything, I'm all for this approach, but sometimes we all need some time out.)

However the strength of time out is as a reset. (And actually I like to call it that instead of a time out.) "What's going on here is unsafe/inappropriate/whatever so we need a reset."
Time out doesn't work great as a threat, and that's a misuse of the technique. (Actually, I think threatening anything is a misuse.) Whatever the limits are in your home when you step in with time-out, you just do it, don't talk about it first. And as soon as it's over, welcome the child back with open arms and don't hash out what happened before. He's had his reset and you're glad to have him back. That's also what gives the time out its power, is that when he's with you, he's getting lots of positive interaction, and as soon as the time out's over, he's welcome to that high positivity again. You can even compliment for taking the time out "with integrity", "responsibly," or whatever.

Now here's the Dina Friedman part - cuz I also have kids (like, um, all three of them? only sort'a kidding) who don't really "get" time out and will come back out like a jack-in-the-box. That's the real reason I don't do time out. She says you cannot force a child to do something, but you can go take the time-out yourself. (She gives another option which is basically not interacting with the child until he does his time out. "I need a drink." "After your time out.") But in most cases I like the idea of taking the time out myself, closing myself in my room for the duration of the child's time out. That works for a younger kid.

Hope this helps! Maybe I'll try this too!

Posted: Mon, Aug 13 2012, 2:44 pm Post subject: re: time out is a LIE

With a child younger than 3, I found that saying: "I can't talk to you when you (describe behavior)," and walking out of the room or literally turning my back to them and ignoring them for a minute, worked wonders.

Gold Member Joined: Oct 26 2008 Posts: 1248

My 2.5 year old DS gets sent to his room for time out when he breaks a house rule (hitting, kicking, not listening in general).

Does he try to escape from his room? Of course. But I literally stand there and hold the door closed so he can't open it. He cries and yells and begs to come out until his 2 or 3 minutes are up. Then I open the door and ask if he is ready to be nice/behave/whatever. He will usually say yes (and if he says it, he means it, he does not understand the concept of lying yet, so he is honest about his intentions to break rules Smile

) and if he says no, I tell him he can go back to time out until he is ready to listen or behave. Repeat as necessary.

I also ask him if he has anything to say if he has hit or kicked - my MIL who is a preschool teacher told me not to demand that he say "sorry" but rather to ask him what he wants to say or if he has anything to say. He knows what I want to hear, and if he wants to come out of time out, he knows he had better say it!