What makes OOT cheaper?

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 29 2006 Posts: 4773

In the past months many people have suggested that we move OOT for financial reasons. What makes living OOT cheaper? Assuming OOT is someplace in America, you would still be paying for insurance, tuition etc.

Is the only difference the housing? What comes out cheaper?

Living in nyc, I don't need to have a car of any of the expenses attached, kosher food is cheaper, I've heard tuitions are slightly cheaper, cleaning help is cheaper. There is so much for kids to do here for free or real cheap. What seems to be eating up the money is housing. It's a lot! Has anyone made the calculations? Compare the expenses of the 2 ways of life?

If I move OOT and have to pay for a car and all those expenses, pay more for food, pay more tuition, more for cleaning help and babysitting, and pay to travel for simchas -is it really all worth cheaper housing costs?

Maybe it is.

Discuss....
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Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 6:28 pm Post subject: re: Why makes OOT cheaper?

we live "OOT" in Cleveland. We rent a 3 bedroom house with a backyard, attic, and basement for $1200 plus utilities. Our kids each have their own room and they've got plenty of room to play. For something that big in New York my guess is I'd be paying $3000+ per month.

I have no idea what grocery prices are, but some places are reasonable here. Some places are ridiculous but convenient.

Our kids are "stuck" in public school because of their special needs until they're ready to mainstream into our local Hebrew Academy with one on one aides so I don't know yet what we'll be paying in tuition but my understanding is that if we can't afford full tuition (after we had the twins, my husband lost his job and has been employed for a fraction of the pay ever since), we'll get a break. Hoping not to need it-- we'll see.

As for cars, we have two and they're paid off. We have some savings we'll be using to pay for our next car when we're ready to replace one of these. They're both dying but we're trying to drive them until they're just a steering wheel and our feet running ala the Flinstones. Smile

Babysitting--- we pay 10 bucks an hour which I think is pretty cheap considering we've got 2 really challenging special needs kiddos.

Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 7:39 pm Post subject: re: Why makes OOT cheaper?

I lived in NYC for a number of years and now I live OOT. While the cost of tuition is still sky-high, the prices of some OOT schools seem incomparable to the prices that I've seen from some NYC schools.

I live in a state with no state income tax (you can narrow it down to where). Yes, I do own a car and pay for gas but I get pretty good mileage. I pay less than $40 each time I fill up (once a month or so?) but the few times I've had to take a cab it could cost that much for just 1 ride. Yes, the cost of a car is expensive, but there are ways to cut the cost and its doable.

I don't know how much cheaper the groceries are in NYC than where I live. I remember paying $8 for a pint of blueberries in Manhattan once and its just $2.50 here. Not sure that's the norm where you live, but I don't recall paying more for groceries now than I did when I lived there. If anything, I'm paying less.

Why is cleaning help and babysitting cheaper in NYC? I never heard this. If anything, I would think demand is higher in denser Jewish communities (according to this logic) and the price would be higher. I don't think something like this is dependent on being in town or OOT though.

As for out of town simchas - yes, it does cost a bit to fly to a simcha but we often have to choose which ones we will go to. We just cannot go to every single one and that's just life. If its a close close family member or friend then of course you do what you got to do what you need to to go, but I'm not responding 'yes' to every wedding invitation I receive. I also don't necessary give gifts to the weddings that I don't go to and am not so close to, so I save a little on that expense. Whereas if I were in town and it was easy to go to the wedding I would be buying a lot more gifts for people!

Gold Member Joined: Jan 20 2009 Posts: 1259

Its not just Jewish things that are cheaper "out of town" overall living expenses are less in some areas on the United States than others. $100,000 salary may not seem enoug for a family of 4 living in NYC (even not Jewish) but a family of 4 making $100,000 in Houston texas are rich.

There are all sorts of calculators on the Internet, $100,000 in Houston is like $500,000 in NYC.

Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 7:58 pm Post subject: re: Why makes OOT cheaper?

I live in NJ, and have close relatives in NYC and in the midwest. NJ is far, far cheaper than NYC. But the midwestern states with which I am familiar have much much lower cost of living than we do. Primarily it is the difference in housing, taxes, tolls, insurance, groceries (food basics in NY are much higher than in NJ!) and to an extent education. Tuition varies a lot based on local philanthropy, so it isn't predictable how much it will cost in one part of the country compared to another. In some states income is also lower along with cost of living, but not necessarily depending on your profession.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241

Gold Member Joined: May 09 2010 Posts: 2121

Housing makes a HUGE difference: in Baltimore, I paid about half what my friends in Queens were paying, and my apartment was bigger, newer, and nicer. That varies somewhat depending where you go, but even now that I'm in NJ, my rent is still very low compared to NYC; I have a 3 bedroom 1st floor of a house for less than my sister paid for an appalling 1 bedroom in the Heights. You get SO much more for much less money OOT - it really is a big deal.

While specifically kosher products (meat, chalav yisrael dairy, heimishe brands) might be more expensive/harder to come by if you're far OOT, other groceries are not. Produce especially is cheaper and often much better. And in places like Baltimore, kosher products are neither hard to get nor expensive.

ETA: for girls at least, clothing can actually be cheaper OOT b/c there's no pressure to wear expensive stuff from frum stores all the time: you're free to hit the mall or outlets or wherever and find the best deals on anything tznius b/c the standards of dress are more relaxed. when I was a kid we'd go shopping in NYC maybe once a year and get a new jean skirt each or something like that, but that was it.

Executive Member Joined: Nov 16 2006 Posts: 292

I think it's also a difference in lifestyles. If you move to an oot community like detroit Cleveland for example things are much sim

Platinum Member Joined: Jan 01 2006 Posts: 48153

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 29 2006 Posts: 4773

Are taxes and insurance cheaper?

I eat CY, Pas yisroel, bishul yisroel, and only chassidishe shechita. Aren't those things more expensive? Fruits and veggies and other regular items are cheaper?

How much does a car cost a month? The car? gas? Insurance? upkeep?

Personally I like the idea of a small community better, but our parnassa is here and I dont know how quick that's changing. I'm just trying to work out how it would be cheaper for us to live OOT.

Again price comparisons would be most helpful.

And I so hear you about the simpler lifestyle.

Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 10:01 pm Post subject: re: Why makes OOT cheaper?

I live in Houston. The average 4 bedroom house costs between 180-240K. That's a huge difference from NYC. Tuition is fairly comparable, and although there is car insurance and gas, there is no state income tax. Many newly married couple end up moving here because they can get a nice place to live. Not sure how food compares.

Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 10:01 pm Post subject: re: Why makes OOT cheaper?

I live in Houston. The average 4 bedroom house costs between 180-240K. That's a huge difference from NYC. Tuition is fairly comparable, and although there is car insurance and gas, there is no state income tax. Many newly married couple end up moving here because they can get a nice place to live. Not sure how food compares.

Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 10:10 pm Post subject: re: Why makes OOT cheaper?

car is between $180 and $350 a month or so--- gas maybe $30 per fillup--- depends how many fillups you need. insurance for us in cleveland with two old cars is about $450 twice a year so maybe $900 a year? I'm guessing New Yorkers spend at least that much on cabs and busses and whatnot.

We don't do CY or Pas Yisroel or Chassideshe shechita so I'm not sure about those prices.

Platinum Member Joined: Jun 30 2009 Posts: 8230

Active Poster Joined: May 31 2011 Posts: 54

if you search cost of living calculator you can compare general cost of living between 2 cities. for example it will tell living on a 100k salary in ny will be equivalent to a 60k salary somewhere else etc.

larger expenses like housing and insurance cost much more in ny but smaller expenses such as cleaning help etc. cost more oot.

Posted: Wed, Jul 18 2012, 9:47 am Post subject: re: Why makes OOT cheaper?

I think each case has to be evaluated on a case by case basis, and there are A LOT of (often wrong) generalities floating around out there......

1) Salaries: depends on the field. Also, availablity of positions . For example, if some one works in energy law or something....Houston is a great place to go. Less jobs in that field in New York or Chicago. However if you work in, let's say, finance...New York, Chicago, etc....are great. Cleveland, Pittsburg: not so great for that field. I know that I would be very limited in my job search if I went to certain cities...I would probably find something, but my choices would be more limited.

2) Tuition: I don't know who says that tuition is cheaper out of town. In some cities,yes. In some cities, no. I pay more that I would in New York (I think), and I don't have a requirement to send to camp, like I might in a cheder in Bklyn. My co-worker told me his sister in Monsey pays less in tuition than what we do (yeshivish school)---so it can go either way.

3)Housing: depends on the city. Housing in Houston, Cleveland, Detroit is cheap. Housing in Boston, Chicago, LA is not so cheap.

4) Consumer staples (not including kosher items)-- higher cost in high cost of living areas: NY, Boston, etc...

5) Kosher products (not just food)-- can definetly be higher in oot communities. everything on a case-by-case basis.

So, like evrything else in life, it depends! Smile

Gold Member Joined: Jan 27 2010 Posts: 1436

Just a thought to contribute...

For a two bed room apartment in Chicago I pay 850 a month in rent. Add a car payment and gas and it's still no where near a 2 br in NYC. I have a nice sized yard and a washer and dryer I dont have to share. I can walk to a bunch of places. I am not always driving like one would think. Buying a car is not always the end of the world.

Gold Member Joined: Oct 19 2004 Posts: 1108

Does everyone have a hybrid car who is posting $30 for gas and only filling up a couple times a month? I have a hybrid and live where you drive everywhere, but gas is about $3.75 a gallon so $30 really wouldn't go far...I spend about $50 a week!

Posted: Wed, Jul 18 2012, 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: re: What makes OOT cheaper?

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241