Family and Group Pride

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 20 2004 Posts: 17151

I was talking with someone about Pesach and products and what she uses and doesn't use, and at some point in the conversation she said that she actually enjoys the restrictions; there's something that feels good to say, "This is how we do it," "This is what our family does." And that's just the way it is.

I said: That's actually a chinuch point that applies all year round.

why do we dress this way, kids ask, when other frum people don't?

- Because we are ---- (fill in the blank) and this is how we dress.

why do we keep this or not keep that, kids ask, when other frum people do/don't?

- Because we are --- (fill in the blank) ...

In order for this to work successfully, the point is NOT to just give a dogmatic response. The point is to instill pride in your family, the group you belong to, and to say proudly: THIS is what WE do!

I'm afraid that many parents are ambivalent about this point, no doubt, because they are not that proud or not that sure of themselves or they don't want to seem to knock others. But this in turn, creates ambivalence in their children and then ... problems abound.

comments?

Posted: Tue, Apr 19 2005, 8:52 pm Post subject:

Thank-You Motek nice thread Razz

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241

Posted: Tue, May 03 2005, 10:08 pm Post subject:

I agree with you 100%. this is something that I feel strongly about. and I actually believe its easier to raise frum kids when they are in a non frum school with nonfrum kids b/c you just keep on telling them we are frum so thats why we are different. as opposed to having your child be 1 out of 100 frum jewish kids in schooll who are all the same sect, and should be all the same level of frumkeit. then when your daughter comes to you and says why cant I wear a short skirt just like this really frum girl, what do you say? after all if both girls are from the same upbringing why is it ok for this one and not that one to do certain things.
thats why I believe there is a higher rebbellion rate among frum schools than among those frum families who are in a not frum community or even a really small one.
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Levi- 9 yrs, Dovi- 8 yrs, Shevy- 6 yrs, Mendy- 4 years, Shaina Dina- 18 months

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241

Yael, I used to think that way too until I realized that eventually when the kids grow up, they'll be among frum friends anyway with no less peer pressure and influence.
so now I think the best thing is for my kids to be instilled not only with group pride (Chassidishe frum yidden), but with family pride as well- and they will know and understand that we will just be doing things differently than other families.

Silver Member Joined: Apr 03 2005 Posts: 588 Location: EU

Nice thought Motek. Thank you.

Posted: Wed, May 04 2005, 7:45 am Post subject:

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 20 2004 Posts: 17151

more comments?

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 29 2006 Posts: 4461

Even in an all frum school there will be ways in which your family will hold differently. A child does not always feel good about what he is, especially if he is made different. A child has to be raised w/strength of character and participation to be different than his peers. Nusach tefila, style of dress, hecherim. These I teach my children are the perogative of the home and you cannot hold a lower standard, but the school may impose higher ones. Obeying school rules is part of our home policy. Feeling good is about imparting geshmach to yiddishkeit, providing consistancy in the home - school -social triangle.

Platinum Member Joined: Jan 01 2006 Posts: 48157

There's not always group pride - what about all the politics in C.H. ?

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 29 2006 Posts: 4461

Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2007, 6:54 am Post subject: re: Family and Group Pride

IMHO it's very important to teach kids from the start that every family is different. I explained to them that every family has a different number of children, different # of boys/ girls, different names etc. In some families the mommy works; in others the tatty and in others both etc etc.

From the beginning I never allowed the 'But everyone does...' or 'Sarah A is allowed to...' arguments. Other families may have different rules (and some may be better/ worse as far as the child is concerned) but we are all different. Each mommy/tatty decides what to do/ how to spend their money etc according to what they think is important. When Tatty doesn't know the halacha he asks our rav (who may say something different from Avraham's tatty's rav) and that's what we do.

All I can say is that it works. Once they were somewhat older (I'll get back to you on teenagers - my oldest is 12.5) they never complained that they couldn't do something that a friend could. In fact they often say that this skirt isn't tzniyus or that we don't buy those tapes etc themselves and take pride in it.