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| chavamom |
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 Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 4:34 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| It's unknown if that helps or not. If the mohel had an active lesion, for sure not. The problem is, you can't always see them if they are on the gums or other place in the mouth.
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| imamiri |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| Ruchel wrote: | Fun coincidence! my friend had a baby, and she needs a mohel who will accept to do tubeless.
So I'm trying to help her. Most people havent even heard of it. Most mohelim have refused for now. A couple do it if the parents want.
Interestingly it seems the mohalim who are doctor are less likely to do it. |
Because doctors have taken microbiology and understand germ theory and are less given to superstition and tend more towards real science?
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| naturalmom5 |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| marina wrote: | The department of health has as much right to step in here as it does when Christian Scientists choose not to take their infants to the doctor or some other dangerous religious practice.
And no, people aren't going to have underground brissim if this practice is outlawed. Maybe for a while, but then things will stabilize and societal norms will kick in. |
To quote you let me know when that happens
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| MaBelleVie |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 9:06 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| Are there any major poskim who ruled AGAINST metzitza b'pe?
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| Peanut2 |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| imamiri wrote: | | Ruchel wrote: | Fun coincidence! my friend had a baby, and she needs a mohel who will accept to do tubeless.
So I'm trying to help her. Most people havent even heard of it. Most mohelim have refused for now. A couple do it if the parents want.
Interestingly it seems the mohalim who are doctor are less likely to do it. |
Because doctors have taken microbiology and understand germ theory and are less given to superstition and tend more towards real science? |
Germ theory is just that, a theory! 
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| Peanut2 |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 9:35 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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Do they do metzitza b'peh when someone has a bris as part of conversion? Like when a person is 15 or 25 or 55?
So Avraham Avinu had one?
Even if the answer is yes to both I think it should be entirely illegal.
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| seeker |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 9:42 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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There are major litvish poskim and mohels who do promote metzitza b'peh, and I'm not sure because I'm not chasidish but I'm pretty sure the converse is true as well, so whoever was trying to extrapolate statistics based on enrollment in chasidish chadarim is completely invalid.
Batmelech, the mohelim I know rinse with listerine immediately before doing it. I think there are studies about it actually dramatically reducing germ counts.
It is only done on babies, not when doing a bris on an older person. I forgot the reason but explained it in another thread on this topic.
I am still waiting for some better, unbiased research before I have a baby boy... 
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| goodmorning |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| seeker wrote: |
Batmelech, the mohelim I know rinse with listerine immediately before doing it. I think there are studies about it actually dramatically reducing germ counts. |
Didn't read the article, just the abstract, but maybe this is what you meant. Study about Listerine
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| chavamom |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 10:00 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| It appears that that would help with saliva. It wouldn't help if the mohel had an active lesion.
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| seeker |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| chavamom wrote: | | It appears that that would help with saliva. It wouldn't help if the mohel had an active lesion. | OK, but still I think that is the primary concern. It's easy enough to say anyone with a lesion should not perform metzitza b'peh; the concern is that a large portion of the population carries the virus with no symptoms.
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| chavamom |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 10:54 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| Not exactly. Lesions can go unrecognized, esp. if they are just starting or if they are in the mouth, not on the lips.
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| Barbara |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| Peanut2 wrote: | | imamiri wrote: | | Ruchel wrote: | Fun coincidence! my friend had a baby, and she needs a mohel who will accept to do tubeless.
So I'm trying to help her. Most people havent even heard of it. Most mohelim have refused for now. A couple do it if the parents want.
Interestingly it seems the mohalim who are doctor are less likely to do it. |
Because doctors have taken microbiology and understand germ theory and are less given to superstition and tend more towards real science? |
Germ theory is just that, a theory! |
Are you kidding? I couldn't tell. You don't believe that germs exist?
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| chavamom |
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| Posted: Sun, Jun 10 2012, 11:40 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| [I'm pretty sure the eyeroll means she's kidding. As in "anything that doesn't jive with the frum world view is 'just a theory'"?]
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| imamiri |
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| Posted: Mon, Jun 11 2012, 2:10 am Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| Peanut2 wrote: | Do they do metzitza b'peh when someone has a bris as part of conversion? Like when a person is 15 or 25 or 55?
So Avraham Avinu had one?
Even if the answer is yes to both I think it should be entirely illegal. |
I asked about converts once and was told, "Of course they do NOT!". If it's so necessary, why wouldn't it be necessary for a convert too?
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| Hashem_Yaazor |
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| Posted: Mon, Jun 11 2012, 9:12 am Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| Barbara wrote: |
Are you kidding? I couldn't tell. You don't believe that germs exist? | Someone once told me that there is no such thing as germs. They are micro-organisms.
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| chavamom |
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| Posted: Mon, Jun 11 2012, 11:30 am Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| I think the bottom line is that while the risk may be small and might be minimized, it cannot be eliminated. Mouths carry germs and do not belong on surgical wounds. This means that there will be some number of babies who will continue to contract infections (rarely, yes) from this practice. Is it really worth while to have a known risk for something that is not a d'oraisa and can be done in a different manner?
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| chavamom |
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| Posted: Mon, Jun 11 2012, 10:05 pm Post subject: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| Plenty of Orthodox mohels do not do metzitzah b'peh, ESPECIALLY if they are doing a bris for a non-frum couple.
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| MaBelleVie |
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| Posted: Mon, Jun 11 2012, 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: re: Department of Health on Metzitzah B'Peh |
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| MaBelleVie wrote: | | Are there any major poskim who ruled AGAINST metzitza b'pe? |
Does anyone know the answer to this?
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| GetReal |
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