Daughter misses the deadline

Beginner Joined: Jun 21 2007 Posts: 17

My daughter misses the deadline for school next year for pre 1A by a couple of days. I am her mother and am of course subjective, but her previous teachers and people who know her are reccomending I push her into the class thereby she'll be the youngest. As of now she is definitely ready for the class but I spoke with the principal who said he doesnt take kids past the deadline no matter what. Should I push it? she is an oldest child and is very mature for her age. she is also tall and will have to deal with always being the tallest and oldest in the class (could that be hard for her later on?) whats your opinion?

also what are the pros and cons of being oldest vs youngest

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 18 2010 Posts: 3040

I was the youngest in my class. It wasn't such a big deal when I was older, but it was hard when I was younger. At three or four, months can make a difference. My parents were under tremendous pressure to get me fully potty trained because everyone else was- except I was so much younger that it was really an unfair expectation on me. But by the time you get to first or second grade, age is less of a factor; there's always going to be someone who is the oldest and someone who is the youngest in the class.

The real issue is the cut-off date. If the principal does not make exceptions, then he doesn't make exceptions. If you're so adamant that she be in that grade, then find a school with a later deadline. I can tell you as a teacher, we really, really, really don't like those parents who are always claiming "special circumstances" and trying to circumvent the system.

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 17 2008 Posts: 5050

BTDT.

DS was in the same position. Missed the deadline by 4 days. Had already been in a full pre-K program the year before, but the principal refused to put him in the KG program because of the deadline.

He went through elementary school misplaced in his class. He had friends, did well, but was never a good fit in the class.

We took him out of elementary school after 7th grade and put him into a yeshiva HS (we kind of took the place that would accept him, though it was one that we were okay with, but probably wouldn't have sent him to otherwise). My oldest DD and I taught him the 8th grade math he missed. He stayed there for 2 years, then transferred to another yeshiva (more of a 1st choice for us) and stayed with the class a year ahead. That yeshiva wouldn't put him there initially, they had him stay back for the 1st zman, but put him up after a few weeks.

We had no choice as the school wouldn't bend on the deadline.
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Posted: Tue, May 29 2012, 8:47 pm Post subject: re: daughter misses the deadline

She may not always be the tallest either. I was the tallest kid in my class until 5th grade. By mid 6th grade, I was the shortest and it stayed that way for the rest of school. My family is all very tall, even the women. Except me.

Gold Member Joined: Apr 27 2010 Posts: 1979

I think the whole question of whether it's better to be the oldest or the youngest is a moot point because every school I know of is extremely strict with the cutoff date. They will let you keep you kid back but they wont let you put a kid ahead even if they miss the deadline by one day. I know someone else in this situation who would also love to push her kid ahead, as she is very advanced and only missed the cutoff by 2 days, but the schools don't usually bend on that.
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Diamond Member Joined: Aug 07 2006 Posts: 2556

I was among the youngest in my school and it was a mixed blessing. I moved after starting school, and was not required to repeat a grade even though the cutoff date was earlier at my new school.

I would say being the tallest and most mature in the class is probably better than being the youngest, given a choice, if sports are emphasized (big big problem for me).

Active Poster Joined: May 07 2012 Posts: 84

My father was the youngest in his grade...and he hated it.
He felt rushed and pressured to perform at a level he wasn't ready for.

If your know the school truly sticks to its cutoff date, then just abide by it. It probably is for the best.

Gold Member Joined: Jul 14 2009 Posts: 2094

I specifically kept dd back. I'd rather her be on the end of the class (it was great for her self esteem), than the younger end & possibly have to struggle keeping up since the brain develops only so fast.

Posted: Wed, May 30 2012, 5:09 am Post subject: re: daughter misses the deadline

I am very much in favour of keeping to the cut-off dates unless there is really an earth-shattering reason not to. OK, so your dd will be almost a year older than the youngest in her class. But she will also have others in her class who are three weeks younger or three days. Someone has to be the oldest. Being tall is irrelevant.

From what you wrote it doesn't sound like she is a genius - just well-rounded and bright. So great. she'll do fine in the younger class too, iy"H. Would you do the same if she was ten days younger? Ten weeks? There has to be a cut off point somewhere.

I have a dd who missed the cut off by 10 days - actually her due date was the cut off date (1st Tevet). She is fine.

Another point which I don't think anyone mentioned - beware, beware of fighting the school, even if you win (I'm talking these kind of issues, not, for example, a nasty teacher). 1. You will get the name of difficult/ stubborn parents, or parents who think their dd is G-d's gift to mankind. 2. If you run into ANY problem later with your dd, you are likely to get a reaction of 'well, it's your fault for pushing her' or 'if she was in her 'proper' class she would be okay'. Just for the reason of the school being anti, I would drop this.
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Active Poster Joined: May 03 2012 Posts: 62

I pushed one of my sons into the class, thinking it would be best for him since he had always been in gan with older kids and did well. It was a disaster. Aside from a bad shidduch with the teacher, he really struggled and wasn't ready to keep up with the other kids and he felt terrible about himself.

We kept him back the next year (the school switched locations and teachers so he didn't realize he was being held back) and it is the best thing in the world for him. He's the oldest in the class, the teacher's "helper" and the kids look up to him. He's shining this year and absolutely loves school.

I would always aim to have my children at the upper end than the lower end of the class age-wise after this experience.

Posted: Wed, May 30 2012, 5:16 am Post subject: re: daughter misses the deadline

As a teacher of that age I would definately recommend your kid be the oldest in the class and not the youngest

1) for reasons others mentioned- self esteem, not having the struggle of the youngest in the class
2) Most schools if pushed, are happier to keep kids down than push them up- you might be looking at the impossible anyway!!!

I think if your child is VERY advanced for her age AND only just misses the cut off, you should ask if the school can specifically keep an eye on her when she does start (in her own year) and work with them to make sure she is not bored and is stretched- and if they find she really is way ahead- then consider moving her up at that stage.

I cant imagine they will let her go in the year up without seeing for themselves it is a better fit.

Also, even if she is advanced, emotional maturity rarely runs ahead of age, and can really do a disservice to you child forming friendships with her peers.

Posted: Wed, May 30 2012, 5:53 am Post subject: re: daughter misses the deadline

It's a bracha that the deadline worked out like this in your daughter's favor. In general, it's better to be the oldest - there's a huge difference in ability between the oldest and youngest children in a class this age. We've seen this repeatedly with our kids, starting with the oldest, who we held back (for a second year in the 3 year old gan) so he'd be among the oldest rather than the youngest, then with the next child who was five days before the cutoff, and were very happy our fourth was born two weeks after cutoff!

Really, it's a good thing to be the oldest in a class! Generally the older kids have more physical ability, cognitive understanding, and social confidence.
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Posted: Wed, May 30 2012, 6:42 am Post subject: re: daughter misses the deadline

In England, the deadline is September 1st. My sister was born on the 3rd, and my parents pushed her up. It was the best thing for her. We are all very intelligent with quick brains, BH, and she was reading by age 3, so would have been completely bored in school, and was always at the top of her class, even being younger than them all. I am born in February, so middle of the year, and was still top of the class for my entire school career, with not much effort at all, and that has given me an extremely lazy attitude. Since I could get a 99% or even 100% with just a quick read through of the material to be covered, I hardly bothered working harder or pushing myself much more, which was obviously not to my benefit long term.
My oldest is born May 30 and the youngest in his class, and so far is in the top group and getting full marks on his tests, as well as doing fine socially, so that is working perfectly for him. My daughter who was due in August, was actually born on September 3 as well, just 2 days after the deadline. If she is of similar academic abilities as the rest of us, I will see about pushing her up - I would rather her be the youngest in her class and mid to top of the class academically and push herself, than oldest in the class, and bored and lazy (although she's just 9 months old now, so not worrying about it yet, even though the thought has definitely crossed my mind).

[quote="amother"]In England, the deadline is September 1st. My sister was born on the 3rd, and my parents pushed her up. It was the best thing for her. We are all very intelligent with quick brains, BH, and she was reading by age 3, so would have been completely bored in school, and was always at the top of her class, even being younger than them all. I am born in February, so middle of the year, and was still top of the class for my entire school career, with not much effort at all, and that has given me an extremely lazy attitude. Since I could get a 99% or even 100% with just a quick read through of the material to be covered, I hardly bothered working harder or pushing myself much more, which was obviously not to my benefit long term. [quote]

Why not??? So you found academia easy? A person can focus their energy on other things, on hobbies and chessed, outside of school work? There are lots of ways to develop and grow outside of school work, without becoming lazy or complacent. They can help other weaker students in the class. It means as a parent being aware and creating interests and outlets, but there is nothing to say you wouldnt have developed the same attitude if you were bottom of the class.

There are clever kids who are always looking to do more, be stretched etc (it helps A LOT if the parents and school can accomodate this) and there are clever kids who become lazy. It can be a personality thing plus depend if the school is aware and good at meeting needs of clever kids.

Posted: Wed, May 30 2012, 8:15 am Post subject: re: daughter misses the deadline

In hindsight, don't push. And I say this because of social reasons, academics are not the issue.

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7672

Studies show that kids who are the oldest do better in many areas than those who are among the youngest in their class- and not just in academics.

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2597

Silver Member Joined: Jun 12 2011 Posts: 707

My son made the deadline by about a week and a half. Since he's very bright, I was really glad. In retrospect, I'm sorry I didn't hold him back a year. He did great academically, but definitely had social issues all the way till about 3rd grade, and I think that being the oldest instead of the youngest would have been very helpful for him. True I would have needed to be a bit on top of him and this teachers to make sure he was stimulated, but I don't think it would have been such a big deal. He loves reading, and it would have been easy to provide him with supplementary material if he started feeling bored, but it is very hard to help him become more mature socially before he was ready.

Silver Member Joined: Jun 14 2010 Posts: 694

My DD missed the deadline by 3 weeks, plus she is tall and academically advanced. Like you, the school is very strict about cutoff dates. So we ended up having her evaluated, and then we sent her - a grade "ahead" (as in, by 3 weeks) - to another kindergarden/1A in another school that is ok with "pushing ahead". The next year we switched her to the original school we wanted (there were obviously many other factors involved in the school switch, not just pulling shtick to get her in the grade we wanted) knowing that they accept kids who have already successfully completed kindergarten into first grade regardless of age.
B"H she is doing wonderfully. She is actually one of the tallest and largest in her class although she is the youngest. She keeps up academically and is doing well socially. When I look at the kids she was supposed to be in class with I always become so grateful that we did what we did, since they look so little and immature next to her. She is literally a head taller than some of them and she is reading "A Little Princess" while they are working on "Amelia Bedelia" (by way of example).
It worked for us, but I would be hesitant for you to make your decision based on our child. It completely depends on your daughter. And to echo previous posters, probably the most important factors are her maturity level and social skills.