Posh Mall Tells Chabad Man: Stay Out

Anyone else see this? Pretty disturbing . .

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/156484

Gold Member Joined: Sep 13 2010 Posts: 2128

I dont find it so disturbing.

if he had come in to just go shopping I would be surprised but he comes there to premote religion and prob does so without mall permission. They have a right to ask him to not do that in their mall.

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5893

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 20 2009 Posts: 7666

If their "intensive activity" is making people feel uneasy, they are probably doing a greater service by not being there anyway.

Gold Member Joined: Feb 14 2007 Posts: 1175 Location: NY

Just for some perspective, there is a huge turf war going on between Chabad and the very secular residents in this neighborhood (the highest in real estate in the country), on account of their expanding influence there, including a very successful BT yeshiva. We've had quite a few of alumni at our Shabbos table over the years, some who started out on the other side of the fence Smile

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Moshiach Now!

Sorry, but having lived in that neighborhood I am skeptical.

And as an attorney (albeit an American one) the idea that the "management" of a "private" shopping mall can keep people out at will based on their "activities" making certain people "uneasy," without more, is hive inducing.

Was he harassing anyone? If so, why weren't the police called. How is his "promoting religion" a violation of mall rules? Are these written rules? Posted and applied equally to everyone? Is he promoting religion at all or does he look a certain way that they don't like? Details of his alleged individual violations rising to a level that would warrant a public ban of this type are sketchy at best and the owners (as opposed to the lower level employees "just following orders") have been notably silent.

I am MO and see this as a very slippery slope, Tel Aviv or elsewhere. Reminds me of a similar story in the news today from Jordan about religious Jews being stoned for wearing "provocative hats." And I must agree with one reader who commented that those most "uneasy" no doubt would be the first to call Chabad when their kids are having a drug incident in Nepal or need some help or a meal or a place to stay in S. America or some other far away location.

Last edited by DrMom on Wed, Jun 06 2012, 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total

double post

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 19 2011 Posts: 2705

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 28 2010 Posts: 4876

I agree with the others. There is a turf war going on. I'm not up to date on all the details, but Chabad decided to establish a presence in a very secular neighbourhood. They moved in, set up ganim, etc, and started doing things like standing at school gates and convincing boys to put on tefillin. You might think that's great, but other parents were very uncomfortable with young impressionable teens being pressured by religious groups. As a teacher in a secular high school, I can tell you that every year a bunch of kids (usually in grade 10) decide to be a BT in direct response to such groups. Again, you might think that's wonderful, but one can understand the angst this causes parents.

Would you want your very young teens (age 13 and up) to be convinced that another derech is better while hanging out with their friends at the mall?

So this didn't happen in a vacuum. And as others have said, many many malls in America wouldn't allow it.

Just a bit of background I saw on google for those who read Hebrew: http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3901700,00.html

Silver Member Joined: Nov 07 2010 Age: 33 Posts: 784

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=129312

On Sunday, 13 Sivan 5772, YWN-ISRAEL reported a security guard in the Ramat Aviv Mall barred a chareidi male from entering in compliance with a directive he received from �higher ups�.

The original story mentioned the mall�s policy, barring chareidim since management fears their presence is deemed �offensive� to some of the shoppers and those visiting mall eateries.

Mall officials report that the mall is not anti-Semitic or anti-chareidi, adding there is a shul for the convenience of those shoppers wishing to organize minyanim, and the mall is closed on shabbos.
Advertise On YWN �

It appears what the mall�s management fears is the ongoing �mivtzaim� of the Chabadnikim, who are busy getting men to put on tefillin. While many store owners reportedly wait for the Chabadnikim to arrive to put on tefillin, some are bothered by the aggressive well-intentioned shluchim and apparently complaints have been filed with mall management � leading to the decision to bar the shluchim.

The man who was barred from entering, Schneur Schneerson, told the daily Yisrael HaYom �I wasn�t insulted. I put tefillin on people daily. A few of my friends who bring me in via a rear door did not like what was going on and decided to make some noise�.

A number of askanim who responded to the story released by Chadrei Chareidim indicated they will organize buses of chareidim to come to the mall, but it is not certain this will be actualized as the mall managers do not seem oppose to chareidim but do prefer to prevent Chabad shluchim from approaching shoppers to put on tefillin.

Mall officials released a statement that anyone and everyone is welcome to come visit, regardless of gender, race, religion, but due to the fact that complaints have been received surrounding the tefillin campaign, Chabadnikim have been asked to refrain from such activities.

Gold Member Joined: Oct 04 2010 Age: 43 Posts: 1524

Have any of you actually met this Schneerson? I have. He harasses people.
If you have a store which you're paying premium rent for & this guy parks himself outside people will take a detour to avoid him. You will loose business. He's not just going to let you go after you say "no".
I've had people come & harass my staff to put on tefillin & I've asked them to leave. I pay my staff to work not spend half an hour arguing with someone.

Moderator Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 4555 Location: Ohio

This would not be allowed in any store/mall in America. There are signs saying you can't distribute any flyers outside a store unless you are a store employee.

As someone said, a mall or store is a private place. They make the rules. I worked at a mall in high school where people under 18 could not walk in groups of more than two, because they would walk and block the walkways. If they ignored the rule, they got thrown out.

In my neighborhood, stores have signs that say, "No more than two students in store at one time." Because they disrupt business.

The mall is there to make money. If you are distracting people from doing so, no matter how good your intentions and even if you are the most laid-back person on the planet, it is their right to ask you to leave.
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Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7256

There are people who absolutely go CRAZY if you ask them if they want the tfilin. Don't ask me why.
I have such a relative. He'll go out of his way to find us kosher food etc, but he "hates the religious" and people who propose tfilin are his worst. He also dislikes those who give pamphlets, maybe also candles. What

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"It's all cultural, disagree respectfully", me

Gold Member Joined: Mar 16 2009 Posts: 2292

Just a few days ago I was approached at a mall by a bearded man. he approached me just once and was very polite, but mall security chased him out. he was panhandling.

If chabad opened a store at the mall, like a kabbalah center or weight watchers or something, maybe it would be different. then we could argue discrimination. otherwise, you are a private individual who is disturbing customers and out you go. he wasn't barred from entering. he was a person familiar to the mall management and security who wasn't allowed it.

the sad part is that there is no way to make a kosher and clean mall rats...

Executive Member Joined: Jan 25 2011 Posts: 378

Kfar, I'm from Mexico I've lived in Brazil and I have relatives in Ecuador , Peru and Bolivia. These communities ( sepharadim) always have guests for shabbat and emergency support systems to help jewish travelers(most of them youth israelis)that don't want to call the local chabad house for whatever reason. So no,not every jew in trouble in the middle of the Amazon jungle is going to call the local chabad

Executive Member Joined: Jan 25 2011 Posts: 378

Double post