14-Year-Old DS About to Be Kicked Out of Yeshiva-WWYD?

ChossidMom

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 4:20 am

I spoke with my husband.

DON'T DO ANYTHING. Of course the RY wants you to have him confess etc. etc.
Doesn't mean you have to.
First of all, you haven't spoken with your son yet. Talk to him. There is time to decide what to do. Don't let anyone pressure you into anything.
DH also says not to be so sure the yeshiva will be fined. Everything is feeling pressured right now. Don't let anyone pressure you.
If you want you can call me later (pm me for my number) or on Motzei Shabbos and speak with my husband. He can help you not make a mistake.

amother

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 4:44 am

Ok, my lawyer just answered me and said:
Do nothing now. This is not my responsibility. A mother should not be expected to turn in her own son. The kid is obviously having problems - you don't make his mother into "the bad guy." If RY wants to go to the police right now, then he can - it's his responsibility anyway, not mine, as it happened at his institution.

In the meantime, she and I will discuss it further on Sunday morning ... But at least I don't need to abandon my house on erev Shabbos. And my ds has still not come home.

ChossidMom

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 5:13 am

That sounds like very sound advice.

ValleyMom

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 8:05 am

The bottom line is teenagers do stupid things.

Not ALL teenagers, but MANY teenagers do stupid (for lack of a better word--) things.

Many teens are self absorbed, arrogant and impuslive--this is a developmental stage, lasts a few years and most teens outgrow it.

It would be great if all the boys involved would speak up and all the boys should meet with parents of children lost in acts of terrorism. Their prank is no joke and CV IF there had been an incident at another location in the city-- their stupid prank would have delayed a proper resposne time.

The boys need someone to explain the seriousness of that prank.

That being said a suspension is hardly enough. He should spend time with patients in a rehab facility getting to know survivors of terrorosist attacks. He can wash floors, take out trash, sweep... while getting to know first hand about terrorism. Simply kicking a child out of school doesn't solve anything nor does it teach them a valuable lesson.

I too would hesitate about taking a child to the police without knowing what the worst case scenario is. We wouldn't want your son having a criminal record at 14 simply because he made a rash impulsive choice at 14.

We have a young teacher at our school whose husband was denied acceptance to the police academy because at 14 he and his friends thought it would be 'fun' to smash glass bottles in their driveway resulting in a misdemeanor charge which apparently was not expunged. Sad but true.

amother

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 8:28 am

Quick before I close down.

It's good that you have a lawyer to consult with but: minors charged with crimes are automatically provided with free defense counsel. I'm speaking from personal experience, if you son is charged, take the lawyer they offer you and save your money for other things. I don't want to post further as this is a public forum, but if you contact Chossid Mom I'll pm her with my info.

ChossidMom

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 8:35 am

She already pm'ed me.

mummiedearest

Fri, Apr 27 2012, 1:13 pm

hmm. why is there no supervision at a dorm of kids 14 and younger?

obviously your son did something stupid, but where were the adults at the time?

Tamiri

Sat, Apr 28 2012, 11:31 am

OP I hope you can work this out. It's not a stupid prank. But you know that. I wish you the koach to make life work for your son. I can't imagine what you are going through.

Tablepoetry

Sat, Apr 28 2012, 3:17 pm

I guess you're in Israel (by your story). AFAIK kids can be criminally charged from age 12. I would NOT voluntarily go to the police just to get the yeshiva off the hook. Like your lawyer said, if the yeshiva wants to blame him, let THEM go to the police. Why ever would you send your kid to do that???? Like someone said, you are not sending him to the makolet owner to say sorry for swiping some gum. This is the big stuff.

amother

Sat, Apr 28 2012, 7:09 pm

I also don't think you should run to the police unless you have to. Can you not tell ds that RY suggested he do that - and then he won't have to know that you're going against his advice and therefore furthering the authority problem. (If his mother doesn't listen to the RY, why should he?)

If he does have to report to the police, maybe you can speak to them ahead of time and have them put a condition on his going to therapy to help lessen or withdraw the charges.

ElTam

Sat, Apr 28 2012, 7:34 pm

Don't know Israeli law, but in the U.S., a school is acting in loco parentis (in the place of the parents) when the child is with them, so if the RY want to go down and let the police know that they allow the children in their care to run around unsupervised, etc., HE should do that. It's not for him, who is supposed to be keeping your child safe and teaching him, to put that on you.

I hope that your DS made it homes safe and that everything works out for the good.

amother

Sat, Apr 28 2012, 8:38 pm

DS came home safely and told me the whole story:

There were seven of them. He was NOT the ringleader. He understands already the seriousness of what he did, said it stemmed from boredom. They were all calling up the police and saying ridiculous things. Another boy told the police it was terror, and he made the last call, telling the police to hurry. He claims that in the middle, when the operator asked his address, he put the phone down, realizing that this was the wrong thing. But by then it was too late. The police came, saw it was nothing, and left. End of story.

It was a foolish, ridiculous thing done by a bunch of boys aged 13-14 at 10:30 at night. He understands it was stupid, and has told me that he would not do it again. The police, he says, left a few minutes later.

I did not send him to the police, and unless my lawyer tells me to do so, I will not be sending him. In fact, if anything I am left horrified by the thought that the RY really expected me to send a 14 yr old boy on his own to ths station on erev Shabbat. The other thing is that replaying the conversation I had with the RY back in my mind, I noticed that he was terribly worried that the police would now be watching his dorm. I wondered why this aspect was apparently worrying him more than the silliness of some of the boys living in it and he said that the police would start asking questions about why there is no one watching these boys at night, the lack of supervision etc. etc.

When I spoke to my ds about the whole story and I told him that RY thinks he should go to the police (I told him that to show him what a serious thing he did but explained that my legal counsel had said otherwise in the meantime but he's not necessarily off the hook), ds' reaction immediately was - RY is worried because this place doesn't conform to health and safety regs and could get shut down.

And though I am 100% against what ds did and take it very seriously, it left me with some other questions: Why isn't a dorm full of teen boys being watched more carefully? It wasn't just ds - but he was the one who got caught and won't turn in his friends. If it was one boy, it's one thing - but seven or eight of them were outside at 10:30 playing around with public phones and no one noticed??????
Also - my ds is usually one of the "good" kids when it comes to most issues - he's very frum, etc. But if I was the RY I would say something like, "Your ds might need counseling" or "What's going on here?" All he was worried about was his own back and that the police are "watching his yeshiva." And that really bothered me. DS may be right here - after all, if there was nothing to worry about, then why is he so worried?

In the meantime, I have calmed down a lot since Friday and I will watch and wait to see what happens. As long as no one does anything so stupid again over there, I don't think the police are going to waste their time trying to find out which teenage boys made prank calls to them. And if they do, ds will have to face the music then. But I am not hauling him off to the police for this.

yksraya

Sat, Apr 28 2012, 8:54 pm

why can't the boys just write an apology note (without signing their name). the RY should take it to the police and say he will take care such a thing should not happen again.

amother

Tue, May 01 2012, 6:11 am

Update:

DS has been home since Friday. I called the RY today to find out what should be done at this stage. He asked me if I had taken ds to the police and I said no and explained why. He seemed to accept that.

He said that the ramifications of this could have been a lot worse but b"H no charges, inquiries, whatever.

I explained that ds is truly sorry about what he did (and he is), and that he now knows how stupid and irresponsible his behavior was.

RY said that no final decision has been made. They still want to think it through, but it's highly likely that they won't take ds back. It seems that they want to make an example of him and they feel that suspending him is not enough. They have to throw him out or all the parents will say that this yeshiva doesn't discipline its students enough and also to be a deterrent to the other boys. This is even though nothing happened as a result, but just in case the story leaked and the media got its hands on it.

I said that I felt that this was a bit strong at the age of 14, especially in view of the fact that ds has yiras Shomayim and he doesn't get into a lot of the worse stuff that often goes on. I felt that we know he's been an idiot, I don't condone what he did - but to throw him out? Isn't that too strong? When I asked if he could at least finish the year, he said that would not be an option. It's all or nothing. I said I understand why he wants to protect the yeshiva, etc, but that my ds is also a neshama and that so many boys go fast downhill when they are kicked out of yeshiva, and I asked him if he really thought that him sitting at home (actually he's not - the neighbors asked him to tend to their gardens, so he's earning some money!) is better for him than learning Torah. Would that solve his problems?

He said that everything I say is valid, but alas I can only see it from the point of view of my ds.

But I can't help feeling that he is being too harsh on a 14 year old boy.

He said he'll give me a final answer on Thursday ....

BeershevaBubby

Tue, May 01 2012, 6:30 am

Honestly? I think you should be grateful he's most likely not going to have a record and accept the expulsion as the worst of it.

Are the other kids involved also being punished accordingly?

I don't understand how you can say that 'nothing happened' when police, ambulances and whatnot turned up to respond.

amother

Tue, May 01 2012, 6:41 am

Sorry, I wasn't clear. When I said "nothing happened," the RY said that in terms of media or police or any kind of "followup".

In terms of the other kids involved: This is another part of the story that bothers me. The only one being made an example of is my ds, who has absolutely refused to rat on the other boys. He told me that some of them said there were thieves and it was someone else who said "terrorists". Then he made the final call and hung up in the middle because it dawned on him that this was all rather stupid. But the other boys, of course, have said that it was only my ds that said "terrorists." The RY says my ds is lying and that the other boys said "thieves," and that is a lesser offense. So therefore, none of them have been suspended or face expulsion.

And I think that there is something a little unfair in that.

I know that I am his mom, so I am not subjective, but I still keep thinking that this is a bit hard on what was after all, an irresponsible prank in bad taste. And yes, I think he has learned his lesson.

ElTam

Tue, May 01 2012, 6:43 am

Personally, I think gam zu l'tova. I would speak with the RY to ensure that he doesn't do anything to deter your son's chances of getting accepted elsewhere.

Yes, your son made a dreadful mistake, but it shouldn't ruin his whole life, especially as:

1. The school was not providing proper supervision.
2. All the boys involved are not (as far as I understand it) being disciplined, which is patently unfair.

This is NOT a good place for your son. It's unfortunate you had to find out in such a way, but now you know.

Besoros tovos and please keep us updated.

amother

Tue, May 01 2012, 6:45 am

I can understand why a principal would expel over this. What if the police get so many prank calls that they ignore one that is real and it causes dozens of people to die? At any rate, what I do object to is the principal choosing ONE boy to punish and not the others. The punishment needs to be fair and equal across the board.

amother

Tue, May 01 2012, 6:59 am

Glad to hear that the police are not charging your DS with any crimes.

ChossidMom

Tue, May 01 2012, 7:04 am

Sadly, OP, there are many Rosh Yeshivas who are more worried about how things LOOK in their yeshiva than about any particular boy's neshama. I find this very, very sad. It is more important for them to "set an example" than to think about the ramifications of sending a boy home in shame, for the last weeks of the zman. IMO it's tragic and I don't think I would want my son learning in a yeshiva like that (not that that's any help to you if you get stuck right at the end of the year!)
I pray for you that things work out for the best.