Metzitzah B'Peh

Posted: Tue, Mar 20 2012, 7:27 pm Post subject: Metzitzah B'Peh

How do I explain the concept of metzitzah b'peh to a non-jew. There are a few women at work asking me what its all about and I really couldnt answer them exactly.

Please clarify for me.
'
tia

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 01 2009 Posts: 8258

It's an antiquated process that some people still do.
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Diamond Member Joined: Oct 19 2011 Posts: 2709

Is she asking because she has seen this story:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-07/news/31134024_1_contracting-herpes-circumcision-mohel

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/new_york/suspected_new_neonatal_herpes_case_being_investigated
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Posted: Tue, Mar 20 2012, 8:01 pm Post subject: re: Metzitzah B'Peh

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5894

It's a procedure prescribed by Jewish sages to help the circumcision heal. It is an extremely low-risk procedure and most or many modern mohels who maintain this practice take precautions to further eliminate any risks.

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5894

Also, I wouldn't go into it in depth with OP's coworkers, but just want to add parenthetically here that the evidence linking metzitza with newborn herpes is quite weak. Correlational evidence is on the weak side and causational evidence is just about absent, as far as I am aware (I have read up on the topic in the past and continue to follow new developments, though I did not retain sources for future discussion.) In addition, there is evidence that Listerine eliminates the presence of herpes germs in the mouth, so unless a mohel has active sores (in which case he would be an irresponsible idiot to even think about performing metzitza even with a barrier) he can simply rinse and gargle with Listerine prior to performing the bris and thereby all but eliminate the already minuscule chance of transmitting herpes to the baby. This is common practice among mohels who do metzitza b'peh.

Diamond Member Joined: Jan 24 2010 Posts: 3400

Posted: Tue, Mar 20 2012, 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: re: Metzitzah B'Peh

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 19 2011 Posts: 2709

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5894

No one has actually PROVEN that even one baby died from herpes transferred from a mohel. Especially from a mohel with no mouth sores who uses Listerine.

This is especially interesting in light of the fact that it would be extremely simple to at least prove whether the baby and mohel have matching strains of the virus present in their bodies. That would be very compelling evidence and yet no one has come up with it in any of the reported cases. Most dangerous cases of infant herpes are of a different strain of virus than the one common in oral infections, so it would be very interesting and compelling if you could demonstrate that the post-bris herpes cases had the oral type of virus. Again this could be demonstrated with a very simple lab test. No one that I've read about yet has come up with this link.

Gold Member Joined: Apr 27 2010 Posts: 1979

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 19 2011 Posts: 2709

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 19 2011 Posts: 2709

Is this performed on adult gerim? If not, why not?

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5894

Yeah that's kind of sad that the parents are not interested. They're probably afraid to be called negligent or something. Definitely if a mohel is found to be spreading herpes he had better be stopped. IF.

I imagine that if the geir is being converted by a community that holds of this practice, it would be performed as usual. But I will ask DH to confirm or deny this when he gets home, he would definitely know.

Posted: Tue, Mar 20 2012, 11:49 pm Post subject: re: Metzitzah B'Peh

op here
thanx for all the insight! No matter what I say to the ladies at work, they will still think its a crazy concept!
Oh well!

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 08 2009 Posts: 4018

There are many things that they may think "crazy" but most chasidish people would never consider doing it any other way. This is a very important issue, and has been done since way back when. There is no proof, and the chasidim will continue to practice this way no matter what the Daily News or anyone else says.

Executive Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 331

It is NEVER done on adults. Geirim or adults who never had had a bris (think post-USSR mass brissen).
It's easy to dismiss what some poskim consider to be a PART of bris because it doesn't suit our modern-day sensibilities.
That said, the mohelim that I know would not perform metzitza DIRECTLY (as opposed to using a Shfoferes (a syringe) in case of doubtful health on the part of the mohel (so as not to tranfer Chalila something to the baby) or in the case where possibly the baby may be infected with diseases from their parents lifestyle choices.

Platinum Member Joined: Oct 14 2009 Posts: 5894

OK, not done on adults. It is done on babies to stimulate bloodflow to the area so that it will heal faster, flowing blood carries platelets and other healing properties. However adults have larger blood vessels there so blood flows more easily without assistance, and in addition the way men are physiologically set up there is usually plenty of blood flowing to that area specifically, whereas in babies it is not such a blood-filled organ.

Nothing to do with suiting "modern day sensibilities." Sorry to disappoint.

BTW Grandmama it is not a chasidish/litvish thing. There are many litvish poskim who strongly support the continuation of metzitza b'peh.

Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7257

Gold Member Joined: May 19 2006 Posts: 1682

I thought most mohels use a barrier these days? am I mistaken? I would tell coworkers it was traditionally used to help the wound heal (people suck on a booboo - thats not crazy...) but most mohels use a barrier to prevent any type of transmission of anything.