My neighbour's son asked my son to kill him

I am wondering what to do about this situation:

My neighbour is known to be an abusive mother. (She has 5 boys). We hear her screaming at the kids, and when my son saw her chasing her 8-year old son out of the house, and biting him on his arm, we reported him to the Child Protective Services. She was called in to the police, and threatened that her son might be taken away, if she didn't shape up.

At that time, her son was also coming to me for lunch, because he didn't have any, and she wasn't at home to give him food. (ie. he would go to cheder with a sandwich, and not eat again until about 4pm).

Her other children often have bruises on their heads, faces and arms.

This boy recently asked my son (who is 13), if "he could kill him, because he doesn't want to live anymore". I have heard him say this before.

He is getting bullied at school (I have a son who is in the same class), and we are trying to help him with this. When his parents tried to speak to the rebbe, they were told, "that their son often starts". So, now, this boy has no-one to help him, because if he tells about the bullying, he gets screamed at by his mother, "for starting". According to my son, he doesn't start. He tries to defend himself.

My question is this: this boy is close to his father (but his father travels overseas often for work). This mother doesn't want to lose her son. He is close to his 2 younger brothers (whom he often has to babysit).

This boy has mentioned to my son, that he wishes he could "switch mothers", but both because we are neighbours, and because I have my own stuff going on in my life, I couldn't take him in.

Should I take this step and report what this boy said to my son?

OP again. I would just like to add that since she was called in to the police, her 'screaming' is less, and her son now gets lunch. So, it seems like she is trying.

Moderator Joined: Dec 18 2008 Posts: 3612

Report to whom?
The kid obviously needs help. The question is what's the best way to get it.
Where are you located? Who could step in and help in this situation?

I'm in Eretz Yisrael. My question is should I contact the social worker and push for them to get him out of this house?

It's a big decision.

This boy drew a picture of himself which I found, which shows a boy with such a sad face with his name next to it. Is this a case of sakanas nefesh?

The wife also suspects me of reporting her. I don't really care. I'd prefer to be on speaking terms with her, but I think this little boys' emotional state is more important.

please ask your rov. Thanks for caring, nice to see there are still decent people around.

Silver Member Joined: Jun 12 2011 Posts: 702

At risk of sounding cliched, you need to speak to a Rav ASAP! If this mother is in fact abusive or severely neglectful, you likely have a CHIYUV to report it. The question is to who and how. I don't really know the Israeli system. You mentioned a social worker who is involved in the case -- that may be right address. It's not your decision if the child will be taken away from his parents or not -- but you need to make sure that the people making those decisions have accurate information. You cannot stand by and allow a child to be destroyed, both emotionally and physically.

Gold Member Joined: Sep 12 2011 Posts: 1942

IMO this is not a question for a rav. This boy needs help. This mother needs help, not a warning. This needs to be reported. The questions is to whom and how effective will reporting be. The social services system is overburdened and understaffed and you may need some additional help to get the right response. I would suggest you call either HaMoatza Leshlom HaYeled or Magen, which are independent child protection agencies and they may be able to direct you to the most effective route and possibly get involved to make sure things move in the right direction in a professional manner.

HaMoatza Leshlom HaYeled--02-678-0606

Magen--02-999-9678 or 050-848-9001

ETA: The primary goal is to keep families intact while providing the help necessary to becoming a more functional family unit. He will not necessarily be removed, but they may get the professional intervention they need to deal with the root of these problems.

this mother is not mentally stable. no mother, however rotten, would even bite their child! the idea would never cross their minds!

Senior Member Joined: Jul 09 2006 Posts: 207

This makes me sad. I think u need to contact the proper authorities and provide him w tlc in the meantime including telling him if he needs s o to talk to he should come to u. Its a burden on ur part but hes a child who doesnt seem to get enuf luv at home and a little from u can go a long way.

His mother ***bites*** him?!? The kids are often bruised?

Definitely call a social worker ASAP.

Moderator Joined: Aug 14 2005 Posts: 4544 Location: Ohio

I agree you need to call the authorities again if the abuse is ongoing. I am one to ask shailahs, but my rav once said, "Don't ask a shailah if you aren't prepared to hold by the psak." I would not be prepared to hold by a psak that I should not report clear signs of neglect and abuse. I would be prepared to take it up with HKB"H in the future.

I have called the police twice (several years apart, in different cities) when there was a beating going on that was so loud I could hear in my house.
_________________
mommy to 2 girls, 1 boy

"I would rather have my people laugh at my economies than weep for my extravagance."
--King Oscar of Sweden

OP already reported the abuse, as she said. Just so it's clear.

Will you be able to live with yourself if this boy does in fact kill himself?

The neighbors who heard and saw me and my siblings being abused and did nothing because we were "such a nice family" and my parents knew how to put on a good face, I wonder how they sleep at night. The truth is, they probably don't think about it.

Or maybe he won't kill himself, but he'll live with a lifetime of depression, PTSD, etc. and perhaps go on to become an abuser himself.

Gold Member Joined: Feb 24 2009 Posts: 1983

B"H my sons talk of suicide was reported. In his case to his yeshiva rebbe, who spoke to me and I got him in therapy. Years later I asked if he really was suicidal or if it was just talk. It wasn't just talk.

Report what you heard to the social worker since there is already one involved with the family. They are more likely to get him into therapy than to remove him from the house.

This is the OP.

Thank you everyone for all your replies!!!

Today, I called another neighbour in my building, who knows the story, and she said that she would contact outside people who could help the family. Her understanding (from her past dealings with this family and knowing that the CPS is involved), is that it's actually best for the kids to be raised by their parents. But the parents need a lot of outside help.

I just hope and pray that this boy will be alright. I think the bullying at school is getting to him.

Gold Member Joined: Sep 12 2011 Posts: 1942

Executive Member Joined: Feb 14 2006 Posts: 403