What is Worse? A Secret Affair or Secret Apikorsus?

Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7253

I'm having an interesting conversation with some friends about different versions of morality and relativism and so on. This question came up and my position, obviously, is that an affair is much worse. But someone noted that I'm biased because apikorsus is not such a problem for me Wink

So I thought I'd poll you ladies and see what you think.

What's worse for you to find out about your spouse? That he's been cheating on you or that he's been facebooking in the bathroom on shabbos?

I understand that it's a given that you will be upset either way and that both of these are horrible and life altering. I'm just trying to see which is worse from a frum woman's pov.

Diamond Member Joined: Mar 08 2010 Posts: 2534

Apikorsus is cheating on G-d, an affair is cheating on you.
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Platinum Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 7930

Will anyone really say the latter is worse?
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Platinum Member Joined: Aug 17 2011 Posts: 5987

For sure facebooking in the bathroom. Gross. Now if my spouse were cheating on me in the bathroom, I would have a problem with that also.

Executive Member Joined: Sep 14 2011 Posts: 475

I think both are equally bad. I hope to never deal w/ either of them. However, I think if a person is a Yirei Shamayim, and has a fear/awe of Hashem, he will never cheat on his wife. (or do any other immoral acts)

Gold Member Joined: Nov 01 2010 Posts: 1686

Makes a big difference if the question is - which is objectively worse, or which hurts you more...

Objectively, assuming they are both taava based aveiros, (the example of facebooking on shabbos) they should be aproximately the same. Obviously, on an emotional level, it isn't!!!

But, if we are talking about real apikorsus (not taava based) then on an objective level, the apikorsus is much worse...

But, my knee jerk reaction is "Apikorsus is cheating on G-d, an affair is cheating on you." and I hope we all agree which one feels worse...

Senior Member Joined: Dec 26 2011 Posts: 158

Chilul shabbos is between him and God. If he's doing it in front of the kids that's an issue as far as chinuch, but I probably have a different perspective on that one too since my parents don't keep shabbos and are around the kids all the time. That's something I would totally work around to save a marriage.

Cheating on me is directly about our relationship. It is much more likely to end a relationship, as far as I'm concerned.

(Note that I don't currently have a DH so this is even more hypothetical)

Gold Member Joined: Jul 25 2011 Posts: 1520

I do not think they are equally bad. You can see a person's love for G-d in how they treat their fellow human being. Struggle with faith is not malicious, as much as it might represent a weakness.
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Platinum Member Joined: Oct 27 2005 Posts: 6746

Betrayal hurts most to the betrayed one. I am still a mere mortal.

Diamond Member Joined: Oct 19 2011 Posts: 2700

Pffft. DH breaking Shabbat doesn't even rank anywhere near cheating on me in my book. My answer is cheating on me would be much worse.
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Platinum Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 7930

This is ridiculous. Cheating on your spouse is wrong in addition to being a betrayal of the person. It's not like breaking shabbat is wrong inherently but cheating on your spouse is only bad because the other person wouldn't like it, as some posters are making it sound.

Silver Member Joined: Nov 17 2011 Posts: 912

Worse in what regard?

Gold Member Joined: Jan 12 2010 Posts: 2272 Location: US

Not sure what my answer would be, it would depend on the details ...

but I think you should have a poll option for "equally upset"

Something is wrong with the voting system, I voted chillul Shabbos but It doesn't show that I voted... whats going on?

Silver Member Joined: Jun 08 2010 Posts: 529

Cheating on one's wife would be against his wife and Hashem. It's also apikorsus, just as much one of the 10 Commandments as shabbos is- so the answer is an affair is worse because it's against both wife and Hashem, while chilul shabbos is just Hashem.

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 7930

Diamond Member Joined: Mar 08 2010 Posts: 2534

Technically, a man sleeping with another women while married is not an issur d'oreisa.

I voted for the cheating being worse, just because I that affects me, and I'm selfish that way.
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Silver Member Joined: Jun 08 2010 Posts: 529

The example given was chillul shabbos. From my understanding, adultery is the same severity. Actually, it is more because it is one of the 3 "ya'harog v'al ya'avor," you should rather be killed than commit adultery.
An true apikores is rare. It's someone who knows every halacha and every part of the Torah and still rejects it.
So if you are saying what's worse- spouse going against you or Hashem, adultery is both, therefore I would be upset about an affair. Also, to be practical, it's a lot easier to find a solution if you are a united front. It's easier to rectify the situation if it wasn't as personal.

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 12 2005 Posts: 2715