How weird is this? Charedi and non charedi perspectives pls

My teenage, very frum, chassidishe, shomer einayim son is away in yeshiva most of the time. He comes home about every third week. He was home for shabbos last week Smile

. So, when I was asked by a girl we know to host her and 2 of her friends (an engaged couple) for fri. night. If I thought my son was coming home I would not have said yes, as silly as some of you think it is, he tries not to be around unrelated women and girls if possible. I respect the way he chooses to live his life and if he would prefer to not be around women I don't have them when he is home. The girl who asked is a former student of my husband's who we know pretty well, she is DLish, and does not dress up to our standards of tznius. I have no idea who her friends are. Ds told me after I said yes that he will be coming home for shabbos. Today he asked if he could bring home a friend whose parents are away for shabbos.
I told him about the guests and asked him if I should cancel on them, his words were "NO, You don't make other people pay the price for your choices in Judaism." He brought up the story of R' SZ Aurbach on the bus and said that he learned from that that we do not in any way make others feel uncomfortable for our Judaism. I brought up that I don't know the other woman but if it was just the woman I know I would eat in the kitchen with her. He said, again, that neither the woman nor I need to pay and sit elsewhere because of him.
I thought maybe his friend and him could eat elsewhere, but I couldn't think of who to ask now. He said, maybe they will just eat in his room. I said, well I guess you two could eat in the kitchen. He like that idea, he is going to explain the situation to his friend and see what he wants to do.

I realize that the women could be offended by the boys eating in the kitchen, I will try to make it seem like it isn't because of them, like, teenage shtuyot, that they want to eat privately, which I guess would still seem rude?

Any thoughts appreciated, worded respectfully.
thanks.

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 7927

No one will be offended. I wouldn't be. Different people have different comfort levels with opposite sx interactions. If a yeshivish guy says hi and pass the potatoes but generally tries not to look in my direction or talk to me during the meal, I'm not offended. That's his comfort level. So if your son's comfort level is not being in the same room at all, that's FINE. It's not a reason to get offended or to take things personally.

I'm MO so I have male friends but I don't expect everyone to have similar social customs.
_________________
We must love one another or die.

Do you have room to set up two tables (men vs. women), and say there wasn't enough room at one of them?
_________________
"The problem begins with... their political hangers oners... such as Anat Hoffman. She is a davener like I am a chinese belly dancer." (FS)

Professional Hebrew>English translations - pm me for details.
(Complimentary ad as mod)

No response to your question, but I did want to say that your son sounds like a truly lovely boy. You've clearly raised him well.

Gold Member Joined: Sep 12 2011 Posts: 1940

Silver Member Joined: May 18 2011 Posts: 620

Silver Member Joined: Feb 28 2011 Posts: 892

Yea, First of all kudos to you mom! Be proud!

And second You can tell your guests that your son wants some private time with his friend and ur dh agreed to it. Just to explain whats going on. If you wont make an issue out of it then it wont be. Good luck and have a wonderful n relaxing shabbos!

Diamond Member Joined: Aug 07 2006 Posts: 2556

Non-chareidi perspective: your son sounds like a wonderful young man with beautiful middot.

If he and his friend want to eat in the kitchen, fine. I certainly would not ask female guests to eat in the kitchen and expect them to be not-offended unless they know your family very well and understand the situation.

Some people will be offended by standards other than their own no matter what, while others will respect diversity. Not much you can do about that other than be considerate hosts, as your son is trying to do.

Also, I wouldn't give any song-and-dance routine about why there are two tables set. If anyone asks, tell the truth, plainly and clearly. IME this usually works better than hemming and hawing.

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 17 2011 Posts: 5976

Do you REALLY w ant a non charedi perspective here? Because if I give it you may be offended.
_________________
"Olam Chessed Yiboneh", Tehilim 89.

Silver Member Joined: Dec 06 2005 Posts: 927

Impressive son you have!
_________________

Gold Member Joined: Jul 31 2009 Posts: 1237

I second the idea of a men's table and a women's table, if you have room.

More to the point though, I am MO and your son sounds like such a nice boy. Good job, Mom and DH!
What a nice thread to read!

Gold Member Joined: Jul 25 2011 Posts: 1520

I don't know if I'm charedi or not (probably not)
But first of all - you've raised a lovely boy.
Second of all, I like to strive to be somewhat of a lovely person myself, and am respectful of different religious practices. PARTICULARLY if I'm in someone else's home. If I were the DL girl, I would definitely try and dress in a way that would make my hosts comfortable, as well as be gracious about the son's religious needs.
_________________
Read this before responding: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Senior Member Joined: Jun 05 2009 Posts: 159

I don't have a solution for you but when I was in seminary on pesach I stayed in israel. shabbos chol hamoed, one of my teachers invited me and three other girls for the seuda. Apparently she didnt consult with her husband who invited three american yeshiva boys. e/o here was pretty frum. Nobody ate in the kitchen and nobody was kicked out. I even joked with my friends that I wonder if I will marry one of them. I didnt.

Your son sounds like a real mentsch.

That's my official non-charedi perspective.

In the shidduch parsha with my children, good middos like this impress me about a boy. Hearing this anecdote would get me to continue making phone calls to find out more.

Chareidi-minded about things like mixed socializing. I try not to have boys and girls over at the same time, and if it happens, seat them far away from ne another.

Gold Member Joined: Dec 06 2007 Posts: 1365

From a chareidi perspective I totally get your dilemma.
Your son sounds like a mature young man. Great chinuch!
I'm sure you'll find a solution. Make the seating arrangement so that the boys dont sit opposite the girls.
It would be a bit awkward for the boys to sit in the kitchen. since he will be with a friend, they can keep the conversation between themselves..
Hope it will all work out
_________________
Mothers of little boys....
work from SON up to SON down.

What in the world is your point here? Are we supposed to be impressed? There is no reason for this extreme segregation. Absolutely none. You should use this situation as an opportunity to normalize your son by having a nice mixed Shabbat meal.
_________________
black sheep wrote: Trauma doesn't ruin lives; never recovering from trauma ruins lives.

if I have both chareidi bochurim and girls over, I just sit them far away from each other. I don't plan it, but sometimes it happens. we have a long shabbos table and usually lots of other guests.