 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
| life'sgreat |
0 likes
|
Platinum Member
Joined: Dec 20 2009
Posts: 16278
Location: Monsey
|
 Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 1:32 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | OP here.
My dh spoke with the rav of our community who is apparently aware of this rav's situation. We were told that there were allegations that were apparently true which is why this rav moved away from his old community and now lives here.
My dh didn't get (or want) all of the details, but the way it was told to him that basically this rav was involved with teenage girls. I understand that if the girls were underage, this is the same thing as molesting them, but please don't bash me for saying that it certainly has a different vibe than other possible scenarios, and that it no longer makes me nervous that he might to something to my son. There's still the fact that I really do not want my son to be influenced in any way by someone who can be involved in something like that.
I feel so awful and sickened, and yes, I've lost a little bit of my faith. My dh has always felt that this man was a true talmid chacham. Many people, my dh included, go to him for advice and for chizzuk. He has such a sweet, beautiful family too. It's so sad for them. I can't stop thinking about it and about the girls who may have been harmed by him. For the first time, I have an appreciation for the awful power that the yetzer hara must have over some people and it really scares me.
Not only that, but people talk all of the time about how these types of things are kept hush-hush vs. informing everyone, and now I find myself straddling that fence. I feel so sick and I cannot sleep or think of anything else. |
Unless I'm missing something, what does 'this is the same thing as molesting' mean? This IS molesting.
_________________
Live the life you want to live. Be the person you want to remember. Make decisions. Make mistakes. If you failed, at least you tried.
~~~~~
I don't claim to know everything, nor do I think my opinion rules. It's just that - an opinion. 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 1:43 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| life'sgreat wrote: | | amother wrote: | OP here.
My dh spoke with the rav of our community who is apparently aware of this rav's situation. We were told that there were allegations that were apparently true which is why this rav moved away from his old community and now lives here.
My dh didn't get (or want) all of the details, but the way it was told to him that basically this rav was involved with teenage girls. I understand that if the girls were underage, this is the same thing as molesting them, but please don't bash me for saying that it certainly has a different vibe than other possible scenarios, and that it no longer makes me nervous that he might to something to my son. There's still the fact that I really do not want my son to be influenced in any way by someone who can be involved in something like that.
I feel so awful and sickened, and yes, I've lost a little bit of my faith. My dh has always felt that this man was a true talmid chacham. Many people, my dh included, go to him for advice and for chizzuk. He has such a sweet, beautiful family too. It's so sad for them. I can't stop thinking about it and about the girls who may have been harmed by him. For the first time, I have an appreciation for the awful power that the yetzer hara must have over some people and it really scares me.
Not only that, but people talk all of the time about how these types of things are kept hush-hush vs. informing everyone, and now I find myself straddling that fence. I feel so sick and I cannot sleep or think of anything else. |
Unless I'm missing something, what does 'this is the same thing as molesting' mean? This IS molesting. | Yes. Of course it is. I was merely saying (or trying to convince myself) that it sounds different when you talk about a man with a willing teenager as opposed to a man with younger, presumably more innocent, children. Both definitely still molestation, but a different brand, so to speak.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 1:44 am Post subject: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
I may have been one of the teen girls involved with this "Rav".
All the details sound exact. He's brilliant. Lots of people ask him advice. He gives shiurim. His wife is a sweetheart. All their kids seem to have nice frum families.
When I called Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky about him many years ago, he suddenly lost his prestigious position and moved.
If you want to post his or his wife's initial, I can tell you if it's him and what he has done.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 1:51 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | I may have been one of the teen girls involved with this "Rav".
All the details sound exact. He's brilliant. Lots of people ask him advice. He gives shiurim. His wife is a sweetheart. All their kids seem to have nice frum families.
When I called Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky about him many years ago, he suddenly lost his prestigious position and moved.
If you want to post his or his wife's initial, I can tell you if it's him and what he has done. |
I don't think it's the same one as only a couple of their kids are married, so "all of their kids" couldn't have nice frum families yet. I'm so sorry for your experience and so sad that there may be even more of these types of men around.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 1:58 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | | amother wrote: | I may have been one of the teen girls involved with this "Rav".
All the details sound exact. He's brilliant. Lots of people ask him advice. He gives shiurim. His wife is a sweetheart. All their kids seem to have nice frum families.
When I called Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky about him many years ago, he suddenly lost his prestigious position and moved.
If you want to post his or his wife's initial, I can tell you if it's him and what he has done. |
I don't think it's the same one as only a couple of their kids are married, so "all of their kids" couldn't have nice frum families yet. I'm so sorry for your experience and so sad that there may be even more of these types of men around. |
Okay, maybe not. Sad that there is more than just one charismatic brilliant talmud chacham sleazebag out there.
I think only 2 of their kids are still single.
And the "Rav" who did inappropriate stuff with me when I was a teen, still periodically graces the centerfold of the our community's prominent papers.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| 5*Mom |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: Sep 12 2011
Posts: 1951
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 2:00 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | | When I called Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky about him many years ago, he suddenly lost his prestigious position and moved. |
Um, that's it?? 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 2:05 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| 5*Mom wrote: | | amother wrote: | | When I called Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky about him many years ago, he suddenly lost his prestigious position and moved. |
Um, that's it?? |
Yup. Settled into a new town, and gives shiurim and advice.
I'm getting sick talking about this now.
Good night. Maybe in the morning someone will have kindly deleted this thread and all the bad guys....
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| shosh |
0 likes
|
Platinum Member
Joined: Mar 27 2008
Posts: 6251
Location: Israel
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 2:30 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | OP here.
My dh spoke with the rav of our community who is apparently aware of this rav's situation. We were told that there were allegations that were apparently true which is why this rav moved away from his old community and now lives here.
My dh didn't get (or want) all of the details, but the way it was told to him that basically this rav was involved with teenage girls. I understand that if the girls were underage, this is the same thing as molesting them, but please don't bash me for saying that it certainly has a different vibe than other possible scenarios, and that it no longer makes me nervous that he might to something to my son. There's still the fact that I really do not want my son to be influenced in any way by someone who can be involved in something like that.
I feel so awful and sickened, and yes, I've lost a little bit of my faith. My dh has always felt that this man was a true talmid chacham. Many people, my dh included, go to him for advice and for chizzuk. He has such a sweet, beautiful family too. It's so sad for them. I can't stop thinking about it and about the girls who may have been harmed by him. For the first time, I have an appreciation for the awful power that the yetzer hara must have over some people and it really scares me.
Not only that, but people talk all of the time about how these types of things are kept hush-hush vs. informing everyone, and now I find myself straddling that fence. I feel so sick and I cannot sleep or think of anything else. |
So - say it was girls, and everyone has a yetzer hara etc etc - this man would be teaching your ds for his bar mitzvah, I.e. it makes him into some kind of role model or mentor. Is that the kind of person you want to mentor your ds? And if, years later, your ds finds out what he did, how would he feel to think that this man taught him? You are not the Salvation Army and you don't need to provide this man with a parnasa. Do not give such a person this kind of position.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| 5*Mom |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: Sep 12 2011
Posts: 1951
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 4:00 am Post subject: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
I don't have an exact figure (you can google it) but a significant percentage of pedophiles molest both girls and boys. It's an access thing. If this is a man who has a problem (no, is not your garden variety yetzer hara) and has specifically found himself ways to work with children, whether girls or boys, that in itself is a red flag. Run, don't walk, in the other direction.
If you have received credible information from a credible source you really must warn other people whose children are exposed to this man. If you are not comfortable telling them straight out, you can say you confirmed some worrisome information that they should have and give them the name and number of the Rav who told you.
Do not be the one to stand idly by while someone else's child gets hurt. Please!!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 8:40 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| shosh wrote: |
So - say it was girls, and everyone has a yetzer hara etc etc - this man would be teaching your ds for his bar mitzvah, I.e. it makes him into some kind of role model or mentor. Is that the kind of person you want to mentor your ds? And if, years later, your ds finds out what he did, how would he feel to think that this man taught him? You are not the Salvation Army and you don't need to provide this man with a parnasa. Do not give such a person this kind of position. |
I know!! That's why I wrote the following:
| amother wrote: | | There's still the fact that I really do not want my son to be influenced in any way by someone who can be involved in something like that. | And as soon as we heard that the allegations have legitimacy, dh and I agreed that there is no question that we are pulling our ds out of lessons.
| 5*Mom wrote: | | I don't have an exact figure (you can google it) but a significant percentage of pedophiles molest both girls and boys. It's an access thing. |
Is this really true? Is it the same thing if the offenses are restricted to teens? Please! I need to know!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 8:41 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| shosh wrote: |
So - say it was girls, and everyone has a yetzer hara etc etc - this man would be teaching your ds for his bar mitzvah, I.e. it makes him into some kind of role model or mentor. Is that the kind of person you want to mentor your ds? And if, years later, your ds finds out what he did, how would he feel to think that this man taught him? You are not the Salvation Army and you don't need to provide this man with a parnasa. Do not give such a person this kind of position. |
I know!! That's why I wrote the following:
| amother wrote: | | There's still the fact that I really do not want my son to be influenced in any way by someone who can be involved in something like that. | And as soon as we heard that the allegations have legitimacy, dh and I agreed that there is no question that we are pulling our ds out of lessons.
| 5*Mom wrote: | | I don't have an exact figure (you can google it) but a significant percentage of pedophiles molest both girls and boys. It's an access thing. |
Is this really true? Is it the same thing if the offenses are restricted to teens? Please! I need to know!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Ruchel |
0 likes
|
Platinum Member
Joined: Apr 21 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 43249
Location: Nak, Teton County
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 8:53 am Post subject: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
There is something wrong when yichud laws have to apply to same gender too, or when teachers are terrorized of being accused of stuff and parents are terrorized of teachers. One has to be careful but these reasonings are just so unheard of to me...?
_________________
"You will have many many children and make successful shidduchim beh", rebbetzin Esther Jungreis
"It's all cultural, disagree respectfully", me
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| 5*Mom |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: Sep 12 2011
Posts: 1951
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 9:04 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| Ruchel wrote: | | There is something wrong when yichud laws have to apply to same gender too... |
YES! THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG!! And it won't get any better as long as people with credible information keep it to themselves.
I highly recommend the book "The Socially Skilled Child Molester: Differentiating the Guilty from the Falsely Accused" for a better understanding of how these predators operate, the grooming process (grooming of both children AND adults, I.e. "he's so well respected") and how to recognize when someone's behavior and interactions are just off.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 9:21 am Post subject: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
I'm the one who thinks I was a victim of this "Rav".
HE IS NOT a child molester.
He has a wandering eye and likes beautiful women. Not kids.
I was very close to 20, but still a teen, at the time. And I know I wasn't the only one.
We are SO QUICK to suspect people of being molesters in this day and age. It's in vogue. A guy who is attracted to beautiful women is so much more NORMAL. A molester is sick. A guy who falls for a beautiful woman/older teen who unburdens herself to him is also sick, but on a much more normal level. I think we are SO QUICK to molestation, and we sweep under the rug the fact than many men get involved in inappropriate relationships with adult women -- even if they may be a year or two shy of 18, their bodies are still that of an adult woman.
You know all those threads where we encourage amothers with problems to speak to a Rav? Well, sometimes the needy woman and "kind rav" get way too close. You know all those threads about amothers who had emotional affairs? Where do you think some of those amothers met those guys? Seeking da'as Torah and going to a rav for guidance.
Don't know if this is the same guy or not, but it sounds like him.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| 5*Mom |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: Sep 12 2011
Posts: 1951
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 9:36 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | I'm the one who thinks I was a victim of this "Rav".
HE IS NOT a child molester.
He has a wandering eye and likes beautiful women. Not kids.
I was very close to 20, but still a teen, at the time. And I know I wasn't the only one.
We are SO QUICK to suspect people of being molesters in this day and age. It's in vogue. A guy who is attracted to beautiful women is so much more NORMAL. A molester is sick. A guy who falls for a beautiful woman/older teen who unburdens herself to him is also sick, but on a much more normal level. I think we are SO QUICK to molestation, and we sweep under the rug the fact than many men get involved in inappropriate relationships with adult women -- even if they may be a year or two shy of 18, their bodies are still that of an adult woman.
You know all those threads where we encourage amothers with problems to speak to a Rav? Well, sometimes the needy woman and "kind rav" get way too close. You know all those threads about amothers who had emotional affairs? Where do you think some of those amothers met those guys? Seeking da'as Torah and going to a rav for guidance.
Don't know if this is the same guy or not, but it sounds like him. |
I hear that you were not quite a child but you were not an adult either. It can be confusing b/c a male-female relationship seems normal and we are told so often that men just can't control themselves when faced with temptation that we fail to recognize the pathology in a situation like this.
What this Rav was doing was taking advantage of your vulnerability created by 1. the age difference and 2. his position and level of community respect. This is not something normal that "just happened" b/c he was attracted by your beauty. This is something that he contrived to take advantage of you for his own gratification and it is equally a sickness. This is not the same in any way as 2 consenting adults and he knew it. In that way, he is considered a s-xual predator in the same way as a molester.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 9:50 am Post subject: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
I hear you. he definitely took advantage of me. but it's different than a child molester and he would not have been interested in me had I been 12 years old.
btw, I just googled his name to see if there are any allegations out there and all I could find were lots of links to "very holy" shiurim and letters he'd signed. even a video of a shiur with many other prestigious rabbanim sharing the dais with him. Ugh. Let us keep our eyes open and not be afraid to suspect that something may be wrong even the most respected places like behind the microphone of a big speech.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 10:06 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | I'm the one who thinks I was a victim of this "Rav".
HE IS NOT a child molester.
He has a wandering eye and likes beautiful women. Not kids.
I was very close to 20, but still a teen, at the time. And I know I wasn't the only one.
We are SO QUICK to suspect people of being molesters in this day and age. It's in vogue. A guy who is attracted to beautiful women is so much more NORMAL. A molester is sick. A guy who falls for a beautiful woman/older teen who unburdens herself to him is also sick, but on a much more normal level. I think we are SO QUICK to molestation, and we sweep under the rug the fact than many men get involved in inappropriate relationships with adult women -- even if they may be a year or two shy of 18, their bodies are still that of an adult woman.
You know all those threads where we encourage amothers with problems to speak to a Rav? Well, sometimes the needy woman and "kind rav" get way too close. You know all those threads about amothers who had emotional affairs? Where do you think some of those amothers met those guys? Seeking da'as Torah and going to a rav for guidance.
Don't know if this is the same guy or not, but it sounds like him. |
The way that you describe this is the way that it sounded to dh about this rav too, which is why I said that it has a different vibe, or is a different "brand" of molestation. Legally, it's all still the same thing, but it definitely sounds like a different yetzer.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 10:13 am Post subject: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| btw, He didnt molest me. there was inappropriate lack of shomer negiah though. one of those therapy-client types of inappropriate relationships. if it sounds like the same guy, just know that all is brilliant torah is a hoax because he doesn't believe that the rules apply to him. Yes, we all make mistakes, but one cannot be a "rav" and cross this line.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| 5*Mom |
0 likes
|
Gold Member
Joined: Sep 12 2011
Posts: 1951
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 10:13 am Post subject: Re: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
| amother wrote: | | Ugh. Let us keep our eyes open and not be afraid to suspect that something may be wrong even the most respected places like behind the microphone of a big speech. |
Agreed  .
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| amother |
0 likes
|
Amother
Joined: Aug 08 2004
Posts: 6128420
Location: You cannot PM me. It wont go through.
|
| Posted: Tue, Nov 29 2011, 10:14 am Post subject: re: Worry about a child molester? |
| |
therapist-client relationships, I meant.
btw, if he hugged and kissed me, and I was over 18, is that considered molestation?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Similar Topics |
| Topic |
Author |
Forum |
Replies |
Last Post |
 |
her friend's father was/is a child mo...
|
amother |
Parenting our children |
9 |
Mon, Feb 04 2013, 9:23 pm 
mummiedearest |
|
Life as the son of a Child Molester
|
Shuly |
Notable Clips & Links |
7 |
Mon, Jan 16 2012, 11:30 am
PrincessGirl |
|
BH, molester pleads guilty
|
Ima2NYM_LTR |
In the News |
16 |
Tue, Jan 19 2010, 5:17 pm
NotInNJMommy |
|
18'th ave Park Molester??
|
yitta25 |
In the News |
17 |
Sun, May 04 2008, 1:20 pm
chaylizi |
|
First child, second child, third chil...
|
yehudis |
Chinuch / Education |
15 |
Wed, Jul 04 2012, 9:34 pm
observer |
| Quick Reply
|
|
|
| Choose Display Order |
|
| User Permissions |
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
