Why would a yid WANT TO celebrate Thanksgiving?

IloveHashem613

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:09 pm

First of all, why celebrate Thanksgiving? The food is yummy! But on a serious note (although I am very serious about the food being yummy), if not for Thanksgiving, I probably wouldn't have much to do with my secular side of the family. My Mom became BT in her twenties and since we don't have much in common with her side of the family, I would probably barely know those cousins if not for our yearly Thanksgiving get together. And like others said, there's nothing wrong with showing some hakaras hatov to our country, and its totally different than X-mas which is a religious holiday. Also, since everyone is off of work that day, its a great day to catch up with family and friends that you don't normally get to see and hang out with. The "I'm too frum for Thanksgiving" attitude is a little disturbing, I mean I don't judge anyone who doesn't celebrate it but don't make it sound like its cuz your a better Jew for not celebrating Thanksgiving.

chanahlady

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:10 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Inspired wrote:

It is my family tradition. It makes me feel warmand fuzzy.

Hi, I am not bashing you a bit, and I'm sure I'd feel the same as you if I had this tradition, but I happen to not have it. Anyway... I just want to bring up an intellectual point:

I was just in a store. The Xmas trees make me feel warm and fuzzy. It reminds me of shopping in the malls with my friends as a teen. That doesn't mean those feelings are good for my soul!

Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Xmas is.

But we're not supposed to celebrate America because America will do something horrible to the Jews in the future, we just don't know when. Got it.

TranquilityAndPeace

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:10 pm

amother wrote:

I would go so far as to say that as Jews, we especially should celebrate Thanksgiving! It is the day set aside for Hakaras Hatov of this country, one of the few countries that has never persecuted it's Jews.

Yet.

There have been many other countries that have never persecuted its Jews... until the day that they did.

Yes, I'm extraordinarily grateful for the current situation.

But, I don't want my soul to melt into the melting pot of Americanism. I am technically an American as I was born and live in the US.

However, essentially I am a Jew, and that will never change. If God-forbid this government one day turns on its Jewish citizens, or it's Jewish citizens' sisters and brothers who are being persecuted in other countries and want to immigrate here (think FDR and World War 2), then I will not be one of those scratching my head wondering, "How on earth could this have happened? All those non-Jewish American neighbors of mine were so nice to me, we were friends, we used to share turkey recipes together before Thanksgiving, how could they do this to us????" (circa Germany, 1938).

History always repeats itself.

Anyway, if you want to have a party Thursday night- BeTai'avon! Save me some pumpkin pie, I haven't had any in years! But please don't think that we are safe for the long term because the US government has been kind to us until now.

TranquilityAndPeace

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:21 pm

chanahlady wrote:

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Inspired wrote:

It is my family tradition. It makes me feel warmand fuzzy.

Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Xmas is.

But we're not supposed to celebrate America because America will do something horrible to the Jews in the future, we just don't know when. Got it.

Judaism is the only religion that is also a nationality.

Christianity is only a religion, not a nationality. Islam is only a religion.

Scandinavian is only a nationality, when you move out of there, and a handful of generations pass, you lose that identity. Same with Oriental, Irish, or Indian. They are location-dependent, and those nationalities get completely lost after 5 or so generations of moving out of that area.

Not so with Judaism. We remain Jewish no matter where we live. My point is that from a philosophical point of view it's not beneficial for Jews to take on additional nationalities in their hearts. It is what makes them too comfortable in the countries where they live, they really feel Spanish, they really feel German... and then boom.

OTOH, if I came from a family that did celebrate, I would- especially out of respect for my parents, and also out of respect for my childhood tradition. But I don't come from a family that does so, and I think that may enable me to see the downside to this celebration from a more objective point of view- I have nothing to defend.

Now, OTOH, if someone on imamother wants me to stop in to taste some fresh pumpkin pie on Thursday evening, I may have to come back and delete all of my posts... as the taste of fresh pie may overpower my intellect. Currently, I have nothing to lose by sharing my intellectual ideas about this holiday. If I stood to lose a slice of scrumptious pie, that would definitely color my point of view. I'm only human...

Raisin

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:25 pm

sequoia wrote:

zaq wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

I'm not sure the Pilgrims wanted religious freedom for all..

For sure they did not. They fled persecution in England, but they wanted to be free to practice their own brand of intolerance. The Salem Witch Trials are part of their charming legacy, after all. Was not Anne Hutchison banished from the Mass Bay Colony for speaking out against their excessive religious authoritarianism and subjugation of women?

nevertheless, one can take mussar even from a rasha. hakaras hatov to the country that took you in has its merits.

That was not the Pilgrims. That was the Puritans.

Also, it was a different time.

And, by the time the actual founding of the country rolls around, we have full religious freedom for everyone. And I love that. I love that the Founding Fathers are, warts and all, people we can be proud of.

I guess you are right. I am sure the slaves had freedom of religion, if no other freedom. And the indians had the right to practice their religion, as long as they didn't mind being exterminated.

sequoia

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:30 pm

Raisin wrote:

sequoia wrote:

zaq wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

I'm not sure the Pilgrims wanted religious freedom for all..

I guess you are right. I am sure the slaves had freedom of religion, if no other freedom. And the indians had the right to practice their religion, as long as they didn't mind being exterminated.

America is a country that did awful things, is that the point you are making?

Do you think THAT is why we shouldn't celebrate Thanksgiving? Or for some other reason?

Mommy3.5

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

chocolate chips wrote:

free vacation day, time to spend with the family and I like what IYamwhoIYam said...there must be several reasons why a yid should be thanking the country for.

Do Jews around the world thank their countries? Did our Zeidas celebrate the Polish & Russian holidays? I think America has a lot to thank the Jews for. Jewish immigration has brought mostly benefits for this country.

THE BEST WAY TO TRULY THANK THIS COUNTRY IS TO BE BE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Thanksgiving is more for in appreciation for Turkey lovers than this country. Gimme a break.

I had occasion to interview my grandmother many a time, and one thing she always told me about her prewar upbringing, was that they were taught in school to love Hungary and be loyal citizens, they hung a flag daily, and sang patriotic songs daily. My grandmother was raised in a very chassidish family, and yes, this was the norm where she grew up.

My great grandfather said Every one can give thanksgiving. You can thankful for living in America (which I am), and, you can be thankful to hashem for all the gifts you have. There is nothing inherently "non jewish" about turkey and cranberry sauce, and even if pumpkins are non jewish vegetable, we can still enjoy a pumpkin pie.

My family has been doing thanksgiving for the last 60 years, and I for one Love it. Its a nice day that you can get together with family and enjoy each other, without the worry of beating the clock, like before a shabbat or YT.

Stop hiding behind amother to bash all Jews who are not frum to your standard. There is nothing wrong with having a nice meal on a weekday, and if turkey and pumpkin pie offend you, don't eat any.

TranquilityAndPeace

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:39 pm

Mommy3.5 wrote:

amother wrote:

chocolate chips wrote:

free vacation day, time to spend with the family and I like what IYamwhoIYam said...there must be several reasons why a yid should be thanking the country for.

Did it help your grandmother that she was loyal to Hungary? I'm so glad that she survived the war, but chances are that this type of patriotism towards host countries hindered many Europeans from escaping Europe in time, as they felt that they were a real part of their host country, and could not imagine their host country not protecting them.

sequoia

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:42 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Mommy3.5 wrote:

amother wrote:

chocolate chips wrote:

free vacation day, time to spend with the family and I like what IYamwhoIYam said...there must be several reasons why a yid should be thanking the country for.

We're not living in pre-war Hungary! We are living in the opposite of pre-war Hungary! We're living in America, bh!

chanahlady

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:43 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

chanahlady wrote:

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Inspired wrote:

It is my family tradition. It makes me feel warmand fuzzy.

Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Xmas is.

But we're not supposed to celebrate America because America will do something horrible to the Jews in the future, we just don't know when. Got it.

I am 100% a Jew and also 100% an American. The two are not mutually exclusive. It doesn't take away from one to have the other.

If I were to move to Australia, yes, my children's children's children's children would be 100% Australian. No more Americans. But they would still be 100% Jewish.

You said it yourself: "We remain Jewish no matter where we live." And if I want to celebrate my country, where I was born and where I've lived all my life, I don't see a problem with that -- Jewishly or otherwise. It really has no bearing on my Jewish identity to do so, just as everyone wearing poppies on Remembrance Day in Australia has no bearing on being Jewish there.

Raisin

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 6:02 pm

sequoia wrote:

Raisin wrote:

sequoia wrote:

zaq wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

I'm not sure the Pilgrims wanted religious freedom for all..

I guess you are right. I am sure the slaves had freedom of religion, if no other freedom. And the indians had the right to practice their religion, as long as they didn't mind being exterminated.

America is a country that did awful things, is that the point you are making?

Do you think THAT is why we shouldn't celebrate Thanksgiving? Or for some other reason?

I'm not american. I don't see anything wrong with celebrating thanksgiving, however. I will be celebrating with some american friends. (hey, I don't need to cook Smile

)

But you stated that by the time the usa was founded, everyone had freedom of religion. I just pointed out that while that may have been true, certain other vital freedoms were lacking among a large percentage of the inhabitants of the USA.

emama

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 6:09 pm

Whoa. Why would a yid WANT TO celebrate Thanksgiving? Well, why would a Jew living in America not want to celebrate the secular holiday of thanksgiving? If you live here without realizing the beauty and peace which we have, then you have your head in the sand. I've told my yeshivish son, when he decided not to celebrate thanksgiving, that he was able to go to his yeshiva, and walk throughout the towns with his kippah on his head, and his head held high, because he lives here, in America. We are protected by laws, just like everyone else here. Don't compare us to eastern Europe. What a ridiculous comparison. This is America. Thanksgiving gives us one day a year, to join in with the rest of this land and be thankful that we live here (obviously, I'm not comparing to living in Israel.) If your parents or grandparents came here, be grateful that they chose this country, a place where we can live peacefully as Jews.

MrsDash

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 6:14 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

chanahlady wrote:

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Inspired wrote:

It is my family tradition. It makes me feel warmand fuzzy.

Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Xmas is.

But we're not supposed to celebrate America because America will do something horrible to the Jews in the future, we just don't know when. Got it.

Let my baking/cooking change your ways! Come on by! I'm preparing a feast for Thanksgiving! Here's a picture of the pumpkin pie I made this weekend. We've already "gobbled" it up, but I'll be making more for Thursday Smile

Grandmama

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 6:24 pm

1. Why not?
2. Because everyone has a day off
3. Most stores are closed
4. Restaurants have loads of turkey dinner specials
5. Turkeys are on sale, and delicious if you feel like cooking
6. The word Thanks means Thanks to Hashem for this medinah shel chesed. And for everything else.
7. Appreciation is always good, taking time to be grateful one day a year cannot be wrong!
8. We always gathered together simply because, it was a day for family to enjoy being together.
9. I love all the side dishes as well as the main dishes.
10. I am proud to be an American Jew.

Now how about celebrating the 4th of July?

Tova

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 6:41 pm

My son's school sent home a note reminding parents that no general studies on Thurs/Fri (and therefore earlier dismissal in the elementary/middle school). It didn't say the word Thanksgiving, but on the bottom it said something to the effect of, "Remember to thank Hashem for all that he does for us." It was cute.

I love the week of Thanksgiving.
I come to work Monday and everyone is just in "holiday mode" - light workload, not much noise from my superiors and clients. Wed. I get home and just feel SO tremendously LIGHT and FREE (no work until Monday). My birthday usually falls sometime over the week (this year it's Thurs.).But no - other than me being off and kids potentially off too - we don't notice the holiday...it's business as usual for my husband in yeshiva.

Pickle Lady

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 6:48 pm

As an US born and raised bal tshuva, I grew up with Thanksgiving EVERY YEAR. It wasn't a time of prayer and it wasn't treated like a religious holiday but a day for family to altogether. Now that I am frum my kids have school and my husband works on thanksgiving so its just a regular day in our house now. But I miss that my extended secular family all gets together and I can't be there. At one time I used to cook kosher food that my family would eat at the adjacent to the regular family. If you say "why do are you sad if there are all the jewish holidays to spend with family". Well I will tell you. I don't know about other BTs but for me the logistics are very difficult. They won't spend shabbos with us and the live to far to walk. Chanuka is celebrated as a major present holiday and lighting the menorah is sometimes done if I push it. My sister will only together on Hanukkah on a sunday and always has to leave before we are able to light the menorah. Pesach is impossible because we have the seder to late. Sukkos to most of them isn't a real holiday.

So thanksgiving is the one time my family gets together that I don't have to worry about anything besides kashrus.