Why would a yid WANT TO celebrate Thanksgiving?

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jelibean

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 1:05 pm

Aside from Hanukkah gift swap, it's the only holiday my parents will celebrate with us, sadly enough. If they didn't live near us, I wouldn't celebrate. I do like the food so I don't mind. I make the turkey, stuffing and gravy; my mom the 'easier' stuff.

someoneoutthere

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 1:35 pm

the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn composed in 1940 wrote:

"Our G-d and G-d of our fathers, great, mighty and revered. G-d, we beseech You, in Your abundant mercy restore the world unto its true basis, under the guidance of kings and rulers who shall reign with justice and righteousness, without discrimination between nation and nation, race and race.

"We beseech You, O merciful and gracious G-d, guide our illustrious President whom You have chosen leader of these United States. Strengthen and encourage him and his honorable ministers and counselors of state and the honorable representatives of the citizens in both houses of Congress. Bless their efforts to save this land and the neighboring lands from war and destruction, and wherever they turn in the cause of humanity and in behalf of this land and for the benefit of Your people Israel, send the angels of blessing and success to welcome them, and cause war and its calamities to be ended and an era of peace and justice with its blessings to begin even in their and our days. Amen."

An american version of the prayer for the welfare of the state. more on the original and sources http://www.askmoses.com/en/art......html

The original: “He who granted victory to kings and dominion to princes, His kingdom is a kingdom of all ages; He who delivered His servant David from the evil sword, He who opened a road through the sea, a path amidst the mighty waters; may He bless and protect, help and exalt, the President and the Vice President and all the officers of the country.

“May the supreme King of kings, in His mercy, sustain them and deliver them, from all distress and misfortune. May the supreme King of kings, in His mercy, inspire them and all their counselors and aides to deal kindly with us and with all Israel. In their days and in our days Judah shall be saved, Israel shall dwell in security, and a redeemer shall come to Zion. May this be the will of G-d, and let us say Amen.”

Raisin

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 1:37 pm

they do the prayer for the the state in non chareidi english shuls, but afaik not in chareidi ones.

Inspired

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 2:22 pm

It is my family tradition. It makes me feel warmand fuzzy. The food is awesome. It is secular holiday, not a religious one.Very easy for kids to understand the difference. But maybe my kids are super smart.
That said the only time I have celebrated in the last 18 yearswas the rare oppurtunities when I was with my family anyway. On the ok of my rav.

Ruchel

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 2:28 pm

Prayers for the king/state are nothing new

moonstone

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 2:56 pm

anuta wrote:

I am just of the opinion that non-Jewish people are also human and good. Yes, being Jewish is special, but everyone else is not inferior. If my kids grow up in the world of black and white, there is a danger of them getting off the derech once they grow up and see the nuances, and realize their parents lied to them.
All it takes is meeting one good non-jew for some....
My children play with our non-jewish neighbors, and the said neighbors come over for playdates even (gasp!!!), and my children G-d willing will go to a good reputable college which (gasp!) may be co-ed, so the way I am bringing them up prepares them to remain observant proud Jews while functioning in the world, working a normal well-paying job, and raising their own Jewish children in America.

Ah, but you see, many on this board disagree with that sentiment, and think that any event that is devoid of anything Jewish is by default inferior and not "worthy" of us. I find that attitude incomprehensible and, frankly, repulsive.

I live in Israel now, so I don't really celebrate the holiday anymore, but I certainly did when I lived in the US. Growing up, we often put on Thanksgiving plays at school (MO) and decorated the classroom with turkeys, pilgrim hats, etc. We didn't exactly worship any pagan gods, so what's the big deal? What's wrong with celebrating your "American-ness" once in a while?

BTW, I really don't like the word "yid". It bugs me for some reason. What's wrong with "Jew"?

ora_43

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:02 pm

moonstone wrote:

BTW, I really don't like the word "yid". It bugs me for some reason. What's wrong with "Jew"?

Yid = Jew. Same word, different language.

sequoia

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:13 pm

I am an immigrant. I love America with all my heart and am proud to be an American. This country has given us so much -- a peaceful old age to my grandparents, who would never have lived this long without the incredible health care here, job opportunities for my parents, a great education for me and my friends. How could I NOT celebrate Thanksgiving?

amother

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:18 pm

Thanksgiving is a secular holiday, I'm pretty sure they gave thanks to their g-ds not Hashem. As jews we should thank Hashem everyday for this wonderful country and all the opportunities it gives us. I do understand if you have the day off and also have secular family it is a good day to spend with them and to show as frum jews we do appreciate this country. I do not believe if you come from a frum family and are frum you should necessarily celebrate this day as thanks. I especially do not think it is L'kovod shabbos to serve leftover Thanksgiving food.

jewels

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:21 pm

chatouli wrote:

amother wrote:

anuta wrote:

I am also against insular lifestyle that some seem to advocate; we don't live in a large Jewish community, my children feel different enough staying home for Halloween, etc., and I don't see a good enough reason (for me) to nix Thanksgiving. Another opportunity to give thanks - why wouldn't a Jew want to do it????

insular lifestyle? Seriously? Isnt that what a yid is all about. We are different than non Jews and we are proud to be Jewish!!!!!! that is the message I want to convey to my children at every given opportunity. You sound like you feel guilty forcing this upon your children. Thats sad.

Are you serious?

You must live in a place where everyone is like you if you don't understand how a child would feel to see other children dressing up (something kids love), eating candy (something kids love), and generally having a great time with their parents and friends (something kids love) and they have to hear "Sorry sweetie, that's something that we can't do because it's avoda zara" or however it is explained to them. Children are children be they Jewish or not and it is hard to feel left out. Obviously it is a necessary evil, since it really is assur to participate in Halloween, but that doesn't make it easy to tell your kids "no."

Otherwise I agree with your sentiment that it is important to convey to children that we are different and obviously we have every reason to be proud of those differences.

Some years I celebrate thanksgiving and some years I don't depending on where and what I'm doing that particular year. When we lived near some non frum relatives we definitely did, now that we don't it's kind of just a day off for us, but I dont see a reason to be anti celebrating it. It definitely isn't a religious holiday so what's the big deal? I also very strongly believe that we should all show patriotism towards a country that has never persecuted us.

That said however IMHO I do believe that Jewish children should be taught that we are different and special. That doesn't mean that non jews are bad or dumb or hat we should never socialize with them. In fact I absolutely hate when I hear frum kids talkin badly about non-Jews and I'm always careful to tell my kids that every person no matter who they are or what nationality they are deserves equal respect. But we ARE different. What's wrong with recognizing that or raising children like that? I don't either live in an exceptionally frum neighborhood but my kids never felt like they were missing out, they don't have Halloween, but they have Purim. They don't have x-mas but they have Chanukah.

I think the last line of your post said it very nicely, that we are different and we should be proud of the differences.

amother

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:29 pm

We don't do it to celebrate Thanksgiving. We make turkey and all that for Shabbos simply because....we like the food Smile

ora_43

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:33 pm

Thanksgiving is a good excuse to eat pumpkin pie, and pumpkin pie is delicious.

I think some of the amothers here (or are they all OP?) are secretly jealous. I would also be overly upset by a relatively tiny hashkafic difference if I weren't going to eat pumpkin pie this weekend.

I'm not sure all the history in this thread is entirely accurate. The founding fathers called for religious freedom more or less, but I'm not sure the Pilgrims wanted religious freedom for all. And whatever the official platform was, it's been plenty difficult to be a Jew in most of America for much of America's history. But I agree that today America is probably among the best countries to be if you're Jewish.

zaq

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:34 pm

ora_43 wrote:

moonstone wrote:

BTW, I really don't like the word "yid". It bugs me for some reason. What's wrong with "Jew"?

Yid = Jew. Same word, different language.

Except that "Yid" is used by nonJews as an ethnic slur. It sounds an awful lot like "Zhid" which is the slur favored by Russians. Of course, the word "Jew" is also used as an ethnic slur, but it can on occasion be used as a nuetral term. The word "Yid," is at best an expression of mild contempt, at worst an expression of hatred.

zaq

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:42 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I'm not sure the Pilgrims wanted religious freedom for all..

For sure they did not. They fled persecution in England, but they wanted to be free to practice their own brand of intolerance. The Salem Witch Trials are part of their charming legacy, after all. Was not Anne Hutchison banished from the Mass Bay Colony for speaking out against their excessive religious authoritarianism and subjugation of women?

nevertheless, one can take mussar even from a rasha. hakaras hatov to the country that took you in has its merits.

TranquilityAndPeace

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:54 pm

I never thought of celebrating Thanksgiving as I grew up in a home that did not, and neither did my DH. I'm glad that the kids have a half a day of school and the bank is closed - that means I don't have to balance my accounts on that day!

I'm really unsure about what is the right thing to do. As I said, I just do what I was raised to do, and that is to get ready for Shabbos on Thursday evenings!

Here are some thoughts I'm wondering about:

Do you think of yourself as an American who also happens to have a Jewish heritage?

Do you think of yourself as a Jew who also happens to be an American citizen?

Those two people might DO most of the same things, but they are THINKING very different things.

Also, how would we feel if we found out that our ancestors in Spain celebrated a Spanish version of Thanksgiving for the Golden Years of Spain... right through 1491? That would put a bit of a pit in our stomachs, wouldn't it, knowing that the Jews were expelled the next year?

What if the Jews in Germany, those who called Berlin the Jerusalem of Europe, celebrated a German Thanksgiving right up until the early 1930's? Wouldn't we have some explaining to do to them?

As an American, I'm very grateful to the US for many things right now. But why are we all so sure that it's such a good idea to identify ourselves in our hearts and feelings as Americans... why on earth should the golden years of US Jewry turn out any better than any of the other good times we had in various countries throughout our thousands of years in exile?

suzyq

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 3:56 pm

amother wrote:

I would go so far as to say that as Jews, we especially should celebrate Thanksgiving! It is the day set aside for Hakaras Hatov of this country, one of the few countries that has never persecuted it's Jews.
Shouldn't we teach our children how fortunate they are to live in a country such as America? The religious freedom we have here to be Jews out in the open is unparalleled and our children should be taught not to take that liberty for granted.
How can you compare Thanksgiving to Halloween or Xmas which are religious holidays and of course assur for Jews to observe? This is a national holiday meant to show gratitude to our wonderful country where we can express our Jewish identity freely and without fear of persecution.
I am not criticizing those who do not celebrate because it is too much work and Shabbos is the next day (although we always count on eating Thanksgiving food on Shabbos!). I am just speaking to those who want to make the point that we davka should not celebrate it, on principle.

Exactly!

TranquilityAndPeace

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:03 pm

Inspired wrote:

It is my family tradition. It makes me feel warmand fuzzy.

Hi, I am not bashing you a bit, and I'm sure I'd feel the same as you if I had this tradition, but I happen to not have it. Anyway... I just want to bring up an intellectual point:

I was just in a store. The Xmas trees make me feel warm and fuzzy. It reminds me of shopping in the malls with my friends as a teen. That doesn't mean those feelings are good for my soul!

sequoia

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:06 pm

zaq wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

I'm not sure the Pilgrims wanted religious freedom for all..

That was not the Pilgrims. That was the Puritans.

Also, it was a different time.

And, by the time the actual founding of the country rolls around, we have full religious freedom for everyone. And I love that. I love that the Founding Fathers are, warts and all, people we can be proud of.

sequoia

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:08 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Do you think of yourself as an American who also happens to have a Jewish heritage?

Do you think of yourself as a Jew who also happens to be an American citizen?

Neither are just "happens." I am a Jew, an American, a Russian(-speaking person)... all these things are part of my identity. I don't think we can assign percentage points. We are each made of a hundred parts.

yaelinIN

Mon, Nov 21 2011, 4:08 pm

No one has said this reason yet (although we celebrate Thanksgiving for the above reasons as well). You can get many secular (not yet religious) Jews to come over for turkey, stuffing and cranberry sauce and they won't think you are going to hit them over the head with "Jewish" stuff. Some of our guests who couldn't handle Shabbos for whatever reason always came to Thanksgiving dinner. We still had a d'var torah and made brochos on the food so they had some exposure and opportunity to be with other Jews (although we also invited foreign students to see what Thanksgiving is like as well). Good stuff all around.

Oh, and we never use Thanksgiving leftovers for Shabbos. Shabbos food and Thanksgiving food are way different and I don't mix them. IMHO, Shabbos gets more food, better food and always new food.

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