Calling health dept on frum kosher store

Platinum Member Joined: Apr 06 2008 Posts: 5151

projection projection projection

Gold Member Joined: Oct 04 2010 Age: 44 Posts: 1565

Call the health department? Are you serious? Did you ask a Rov?
I was in a kosher bakery in my country & saw cockroaches on the food display shelves.
I told the staff & I located the owner but to call the authorities? I believe its assur.
This bakery was busted by the health department to the tune of $150k , but it was from the standard
Health check.

Silver Member Joined: Feb 14 2010 Posts: 562

I found yellow cheese, that was expired 8 months for 50%. it had an expired-tag, but seriously: who is buying gouda, that has NOT been frozen and is expired for 8 months? they seriously asked half price Smile

same store I found cheese expired by a week, and they asked full price.
I guess we shouldnt complain too much, cos afterall we should be gratefull that we have kosher shopping options in our town (I dont take that for granted).
you just have to be careful with the expiration dates and read VERY carefully Smile

Gold Member Joined: May 09 2007 Posts: 1360

Remember also, "expiration dates" are not literally "expiration dates." Some dates are "sell by" dates, expecting that the customer might keep the product at home for several days at least before consumption. Others are "best by" dates where the only issue is flavor degradation. Even "use by" dates usually relate to flavor and not to safety.

That said, I wouldn't use a product with any recommended date 8 months past. But packaged sauce 2 weeks "out of date" -- not a problem unless the package shows signs of contamination.

And frozen food should never become unsafe unless it was allowed to defrost at some point. So the sushi you bought 8 months out of date might TASTE terrible, but if it was properly stored the whole time should not have been what made you sick.

(Which is not to say the store should have sold it to you...)

Senior Member Joined: Jul 14 2011 Posts: 195

seriously? See I feel we are always frightened away by reporting serious issues because its "assur." If it is a repeated offense then those store owners are stealing from their customers and it is unsafe! In fact you would probably be doing them a favor by reporting repeat offenses before someone gets sick and they trace it back. On the other hand these big stores it is hard to check every item, I have seen expired products at shoprite and when you mention it, they are removed. On the flipside my husband worked as a mashciach for a resteraunt here in town and the owner, wiped his nose no gloves. He scooped cole slaw on to peoples plates with bare hands. He also made my husband pick a mushroom out of the trash that he dropped on the floor. This is disgusting! Why should we be scared away from reporting these things when this is serious violations of health code.

Posted: Thu, Nov 17 2011, 11:34 am Post subject:

aged cheese is usually more expensive. Unless it is moldy it is hard for cheese to go bad. I would totally buy it for half price if it looked okay.

I think you did your part by bringing the expiration dates to the attention of the manager, but I don't think it is really a health issue and don't believe anyone is in danger from slightly expired packaged foods. I have a bottle of Helmen's canola mayonnaise that we are using now, we get it from the US because of allergy issues, that is six months past the best by date and it is totally fine.
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Senior Member Joined: Aug 24 2009 Posts: 144

what are you looking to accomplish by reporting the store? to echo other posters, the right thing to do is to speak the the manager/owner, and then follow up. in a case where you feel there is gross negligence, and they are doing nothing to solve the problem, by all means -- report away. but be fair about it.
it bothers me when people jump to do things without thinking about the ramifications (eg. zealously calling the vaad hakashrus because they dont like the way a waitress was dressed- instead of approaching the owner/mashgiach and dealing with it in a mentchlich way. )

Platinum Member Joined: Nov 17 2008 Posts: 5069

During one period of several months, the majority of the items that I purchased in our local kosher grocery had something wrong with them. One had no date on it and the others weren't outdated, but they tasted bad & spoiled. I think they were improperly stored. I returned them (the store is very good about returns even without receipts) and got my money back. The owner wasn't there and I told the cashier to please make sure to see that he is aware of these things.

DH and DS are friendly with the owner and old him what had happened. Of course the cashier never told him about it. The owner called me to find out about it and I told him. Since then I avoid buying anything that can get off-taste easily at that store. I have noticed though that they now have a whole section of outdated items with a sign saying they are expired and selling them at a discount.
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Platinum Member Joined: May 07 2008 Posts: 8984

Expiration dates on nonperishables are "best by" dates. The food is not unsafe past that date, but it may taste less fresh and the color may have faded or darkened. IOW, it may be less appealing but that's all. If you're a fussy foodie, you may turn up your nose at such items, but they are perfectly safe to eat provided the packaging is intact. The manufacturer is assuming you'll have it on your shelf at home for a time after you buy it, not consume it immediatley upon purchase, and dates it accordingly.

Perishables like meat, fish and dairy products are a different story. One assumes pretty much that fresh meat and fish will be cooked within a day or so of purchase. Dairy products are assumed to be bought for use over the next few days, not necessarily for immeidate consumption, and so are dated accordingly, unless they are labeled "use by" as opposed to 'sell by".

As a matter of menschlichkeit, whether the owner is a frum Jew or a voodoo chieftain, you should first bring any complaints to the owner and try to settle them one-on-one before reporting to the authorities. That holds no matter who the offender or what the offense.

And as has been said, the health dept. is not going to send out an inspector for a case of a jarred condiment or cereal or soda ten days out of date. They might issue a violation if they found this condition during a routine inspection, but they're not going to make a special visit just for a minor issue like this.

How would you like it if, instead of asking you nicely to rake the leaves or shovel the snow off your sidewalk or mow your overgrown lawn or lower the volume of your stereo when you have a party, your next-door neighbor went straight to the city to file a complaint?

Diamond Member Joined: Jan 24 2010 Posts: 3407

Here's an example of some teas we bought from a Stop and Shop. The expired bottles we returned to the store were simply put back on the shelf. That's when we spoke to the manager, and hoped for the best. We also contacted the "Lipton" tea company.

Note how much brighter the contents are from the middle bottle compared to the dull look of the expired bottles on the right and left of it. We later realized that the expiration date was in early September, and it was already mid October when we bought these.

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 17 2011 Posts: 6152

Yoshi, I love your Exhibit "A".

Dh works in a grocery store(non kosher but a big chain store) and the people who stuck the shelves WILL loose their job if they leave expired product: its the law I think
Kosher stores in general really could care less because their business I sin demand and they allow themselves way too many unappropriate things and its about time someone gives them a kick in the rear. Im sorry to say but Kosher or not Kosher they shouldn't have expired products on shelves: SIMPLE. Also they could have been nicer to OP by saying" im sorry maam we will take care of it right away" instead of brushing her off

Platinum Member Joined: Apr 06 2008 Posts: 5151

Posted: Thu, Nov 17 2011, 6:24 pm Post subject:

When I lived in the US we were OOT and if someone had taken it upon themselves to get the local kosher grocery store fined $150,000 the whole community would have paid, either by the store shutting down and no more kosher store for the community of by higher prices on the items in the store to cover the cost of the fine. The proprietor certainly didn't have that kind of cash laying around to be taught a lesson with.

If you aren't OOT and have lots of kosher stores to pick from, maybe it is a sign that you should patronize a different store. Smile

Either way, realize, if doesn't just affect the owner, it also affects the workers and the customers if they get fined based on your call. It is a serious thing to do and you should #1 give them a chance if this is the only issue and #2 speak with a rav before you potentially ruin someone's livelihood. It is a big deal.

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 17 2011 Posts: 6152

Gold Member Joined: Dec 25 2008 Posts: 2067

Diamond Member Joined: Jan 24 2010 Posts: 3407

Gold Member Joined: Dec 25 2008 Posts: 2067

I am currently employed as a cashier. I know more than some of what goes on behind the scenes, though I obviously can't vouch for all around the world, as I haven't worked all around the world yet.

The way it works in our store, and in others in the area, is that the agent from the main companies / suppliers are responsible for rotating stuff( so newer products are in the back), pricing the items, and checking for and removing the out-of-date and almost-out-of-date items. There are relatively very little in this aspect for the store workers to do.

Problem is that not all agents feel so responsible.

When a customer comes to tell us that there is an out of date item, we know to remove them. We exchange the item for the customer. And we appreciate it so much when they use a nice tone of voice.

Thanks for listening.