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| kitov |
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 Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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In Brooklyn, NY?
I see men in the audience have their heads covered. Is only the defendant not allowed?
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 8:17 pm Post subject: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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Better he shouldn't be viewed as orthodox, thank you very much.
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| chatouli |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 8:17 pm Post subject: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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| The defendant's allowed to wear a kippa in Brooklyn.
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| kitov |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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My question really was whether he stopped wearing a kippah after the murder, or never wore one, only when out?
Another question, if his lawyers claim that although he is fit to stand trial, he was insane at the time of the crime. Then where's the remorse?
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| momaleh |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 8:35 pm Post subject: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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Hope you'll be on the jury, kitov 
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| chatouli |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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| est wrote: | | I really can not understand it. he himself showed the police the evidence and gave a detailed confession so how can he now say that he is not guilty? I can understand if he says I am guilty but I should be let off bc I have mental problems etc, but not guilty??? |
Logically, what you say makes perfect sense. Legally speaking it's an impossibility. Not guilty by reason of insanity means basically the person did it but our legal system can't hold them criminally responsible for the act because of mental disease or defect.
He can't really plead guilty now anyway because the DA's office will never offer him a plea bargain. The DA was quoted in the papers here in NY this afternoon as saying that there will never be a plea offer in this case and it will go to trial. If he were to plead guilty without there being an offer, it would basically mean he'd be agreeing to go to jail for the rest of his life. Never heard of anyone agreeing to that right off the bat...
Also I didn't reply to a thread awhile ago about what "life in jail without the possibility of parole" actually means because the threads died down by the time I got an acceptable answer and I didn't want to go stirring up people's emotions if they were moving on in some way. But since we're talking about it, I asked three very senior colleagues what it really means for this man. One said that if he's convicted of Murder in the First Degree, he can be sentenced to life in jail without parole, which means approx 75 years. Another said 50 years. The third said that it means literally until he dies in jail. Everyone agreed that on the kidnapping charge (Kidnapping in the First Degree) he can also be sentenced to life in jail if convicted and that term could run consecutively, meaning after one life term expires the second kicks in, guaranteeing he never sees freedom again. This is, of course, only if he is convicted of these charges at trial. Hope this answers some questions some of you had...
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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| momaleh wrote: | | Hope you'll be on the jury, kitov |
They won't pick Jew lovers, will they? 
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| kitov |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing I can say is, I'm super glad the city is the one prosecuting this guy, and not the family or the Jewish community. There's no suitable punishment in my mind for such a murderer, so at least we don't get to decide what the punishment should be.
There's a folk story of a kehilla in the old world, that had a minhag erev yom kippur that the shames would perform "malkes" on all males over a certain age. When the rebbe approached the shames for his spanking, the shames said, "the rebbe is so great, I can't hit the rebbe. Hashem alone should hit the rebbe..."
Levi Aron's crime is so great, only Hashem can carry out a suitable punishment. Hashem Yerachaim.
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| may2010 |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| faigie wrote: | | so the man is entitled to a lawyer by law...... fine and good, let the poor slob public defener get stuck with the job.. But who the hell, with any sort of consceince, would take this case for money????????? |
THE NEW WOMAN ATTORNEY FOR LEVI ARON HAS TOLD THE MEDIA THAT SHE IS AWARE THAT THE ARON FAMILY DOES NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO PAY HER & SHE IS TAKING THIS CASE PRO-BONO (free)
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| justmarried |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 10:11 pm Post subject: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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| According to what I read on twitter (not 100% reliable, but from multiple sources), after his arrest Levy Aron was offered a meal. He asked for food from McDonald's as he doesn't need kosher. He ended up getting Chinese food.
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| chocolate chips |
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| may2010 wrote: | | faigie wrote: | | so the man is entitled to a lawyer by law...... fine and good, let the poor slob public defener get stuck with the job.. But who the hell, with any sort of consceince, would take this case for money????????? |
THE NEW WOMAN ATTORNEY FOR LEVI ARON HAS TOLD THE MEDIA THAT SHE IS AWARE THAT THE ARON FAMILY DOES NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO PAY HER & SHE IS TAKING THIS CASE PRO-BONO (free) |
Ok its one thing if she was gonna be paid for it...fine she wants the money so shes defending a murderer! But to do it for free??? What does she want to be famous for supporting a murderer? What was she thinking when she said she will do it? She makes me almost as sick as Levi Aron himself!
And apparently, I read that after he was arrested he told police officers "now I am famous" .
I dont think this guy is even human!!
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| Posted: Thu, Aug 04 2011, 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Yocheved84 wrote: | | abound wrote: | | does anyone know if there were a lot of people in the courtroom? |
I heard there was a young frum woman who asked the female defense attorney--after the proceeding--if she had children. Here is the wording from the NYT:
""""At the end of the news conference, one young Orthodox woman approached Ms. McCann. Jennifer, do you have kids? the woman asked.
Ms. McCann said she did not want to comment."""
(http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/04/levi-aron-ruled-competent-for-trial-in-leiby-kletzky-murder/?ref=nyregion)
Was it anyone from here? |
This lawyer makes me want to throw up. Google her name to see some of the cases she's taken. She's only been practicing for 5 years but guess what her first case was? Defending a man that raped his female employee. She got him off btw by cross-examining the witness who had no evidence because it was all done in private. She's as sleazy as the people she defends
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| Annie |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 12:51 am Post subject: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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I'd rather he have a competent attorney now then be able to get off on appeal because of "ineffective assistance of counsel." That often works when so called "shabby" (read way overworked) public defenders don't represent their clients to the fullest.
This is how our system is set up, for better or for worse. Everyone is entitled to a defense, even if he or she is a monster.
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| speciwoman |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Merrymom wrote: | | This lawyer makes me want to throw up. She's as sleazy as the people she defends |
Don't blame the lawyer. She is doing her job, and she has a professional responsibility to defend her clients to the best of her ability. She is not the monster here.
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| reachout |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 2:30 pm Post subject: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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I love the way people say that the lawyer has a job. Seriously, where is her conscience?
He did have a lawyer that stepped down. That means a person with a conscience.
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| may2010 |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| speciwoman wrote: | | Merrymom wrote: | | This lawyer makes me want to throw up. She's as sleazy as the people she defends |
Don't blame the lawyer. She is doing her job, and she has a professional responsibility to defend her clients to the best of her ability. She is not the monster here. |
It is not a job if she is doing it pro-bono, (for free). It is a favor. And probably to make herself famous in the world of Law. This makes her an extremely selfish person.
see the interview where she says she knows she will not be paid for being on this case: http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-interview-levi-aron-lawyer,0,4306178.story
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| speciwoman |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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| reachout wrote: | I love the way people say that the lawyer has a job. Seriously, where is her conscience?
He did have a lawyer that stepped down. That means a person with a conscience. |
I'm not sure if you live in the U.S. or not, but in the States everyone has a right to an attorney. When a person decides to become a lawyer, s/he does so with the understanding that it is the professional responsibility of the lawyer to represent clients whether or not you think they are guilty, and whether or not you think what they allegedly did is right or wrong.
The lawyer who stepped down had a right to step down. However, it was not within his professional bounds to publicly state that Levi Aron makes him sick and that he thinks he's guilty.
I'm not defending Levi Aron's actions. I am defending the American justice system. Everyone deserves a lawyer, even the scum of the earth.
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| may2010 |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: re: Levi Aron Pleads Not Guilty Fit To Stand Trial |
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| speciwoman wrote: | | reachout wrote: | I love the way people say that the lawyer has a job. Seriously, where is her conscience?
He did have a lawyer that stepped down. That means a person with a conscience. |
I'm not sure if you live in the U.S. or not, but in the States everyone has a right to an attorney. When a person decides to become a lawyer, s/he does so with the understanding that it is the professional responsibility of the lawyer to represent clients whether or not you think they are guilty, and whether or not you think what they allegedly did is right or wrong.
The lawyer who stepped down had a right to step down. However, it was not within his professional bounds to publicly state that Levi Aron makes him sick and that he thinks he's guilty.
I'm not defending Levi Aron's actions. I am defending the American justice system. Everyone deserves a lawyer, even the scum of the earth. |
Everyone has the right to an attorney- but as a lawyer, she wasn't 'handed' this case and told "this is up to you to take.." In the U.S. we believe in the power of choice, and the power of speech. So yes, his lawyer who stepped down had the constitutional right to speak his mind and step down as his lawyer. This new woman took this on her own- and has clearly stated that she knows they do not have the means to pay her so in her words, 'I am taking this case pro-bonno". So anyone who says that she is 'doing her job' has not done their research and is using misguided sympathy and political correctness.
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| marina |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Is only a person accused of financial crimes entitled to a good attorney? Confused.
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| kitov |
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| Posted: Fri, Aug 05 2011, 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| marina wrote: | | Is only a person accused of financial crimes entitled to a good attorney? Confused. |
Good question. But I would think that a person guilty of embezzlement at least did not tamper with one's life, and certainly not the life of a little boy. What outrages the community is probably the fact that there's a lawyer *willing* *free of charge* to defend the murder. Maybe if she would have been a court appointed lawyer, people would kind of shake their head and say she didn't have a choice.
She is offending everyone not just by being his counsel, only by her determination of defending Levy and offering the free service.
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