Washing "what you need" during Chol Hamoed

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de_goldy

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 12:58 pm

This thread is ridiculous. When "common sense" and Halcha oppose one another, isnt it obvious which one we follow?

If my common sense tells me that the other guy is rich and I could use some extra money, does that make it ok for me to steal? Please.

I actually think that posts blatantly espousing and encouraging views which are clearly against halcha should be deleted.

Marion

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 3:42 pm

Quote:

The Torah is pretty judgemental too. It says:
"והמבזה את המועדות...אין לו חלק לעולם הבא (avos 3,11)
Those who dishonour Chol Hamoed ... have no portion in the World to Come.

So I'll ask you again. Are you an Orthodox Jew who lives her life according to halacha?

That's not Torah you quoted, that's mishnayot in Avot. Moadot (or, actually, moadim) are yamim tovim, not necessarily inclusive of chol hamoed. Again, it's CHOL hamoed. (Yes, I asked my Rav this question.) However, I'll happily give up my world to come to have clean clothes and be respectable in this world.

happymom

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 3:44 pm

as far as I know u are allowed to wash kids clothes if u need them. and for u whatever u really really need.

Crayon210

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 3:48 pm

Marion wrote:

However, I'll happily give up my world to come to have clean clothes and be respectable in this world.

Did you really say this?

I don't know any quotes, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to be mevazeh olam haba. Sad

chocolate moose

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 4:03 pm

Maybe we should ask Yael to clsoe this thread as we're not getting anywhere but causing bad feelings with it.

shalhevet

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 4:04 pm

And maybe we shouldn't because people are making important points. If you don't like it, don't read it. You don't own a thread just because you started it, Sara.

shalhevet

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 4:14 pm

Marion wrote:

Quote:

That's not Torah you quoted, that's mishnayot in Avot.

Mishna is Torah She'ba'al Peh.

Quote:

Moadot (or, actually, moadim) are yamim tovim, not necessarily inclusive of chol hamoed. Again, it's CHOL hamoed. (Yes, I asked my Rav this question.)

Is your rav Orthodox?

Quote:

However, I'll happily give up my world to come to have clean clothes and be respectable in this world.

You don't value it very much, do you? Do you believe there is a world to come?

BTW, where are my answers to all the questions I asked you above and you persist in ignoring?

Marion

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 5:05 pm

I just want you to know what you're quoting. If you're quoting "Torah" then it's from the chumash. If you're quoting mishna, say you're quoting mishna. If you're quoting Rashi, say so.

My Rav is most definitely Orthodox. If I'm not mistaken he learned for his smicha at Be'er Ya'acov in Bnei Brak.

Yes, there is a world to come. But I'm not convinced that doing laundry on chol hamoed is enough for me to lose my portion. I'm sure I have a lot more to answer for when the time comes.

I believe I HAVE answered all your questions. If, however, you'd like to put them into one post and number them so that I can actually see what you're asking, feel free.

gryp

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 5:34 pm

Quote:

If my common sense tells me that the other guy is rich and I could use some extra money, does that make it ok for me to steal? Please.

yes, de goldy, if youre a communist. Smile

Quote:

However, I'll happily give up my world to come to have clean clothes and be respectable in this world.

we have to be careful with the things we say!
I'm sure you didnt mean that!

shalhevet

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 7:01 pm

Marion wrote:

I just want you to know what you're quoting. If you're quoting "Torah" then it's from the chumash. If you're quoting mishna, say you're quoting mishna. If you're quoting Rashi, say so.

I didn't say Chumash, I said Torah. Do you have a problem with Torah including Torah She'b'al Peh?

Quote:

Yes, there is a world to come. But I'm not convinced that doing laundry on chol hamoed is enough for me to lose my portion. I'm sure I have a lot more to answer for when the time comes.

If it says so in Avos, then why don't you think so? You're just in trouble that you can't even misquote some halacha this time to justify your actions, so now you are mezalzel the whole halacha.

Quote:

I believe I HAVE answered all your questions. If, however, you'd like to put them into one post and number them so that I can actually see what you're asking, feel free.

Quote:

Are you Orthodox Jews who run your lives according to halacha or 'common sense'?

Quote:

So you eat on YK if you're hungry; turn on the light on Shabbos if it's too dark to read and eat treife if that's the only restaurant available when you go out? Evil or Very Mad Sounds like a lot of common sense to me.

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I asked whether you put on a light on Shabbos if it's too dark. Isn't that common sense? Or if there is only treif available and you want somewhere to eat? Please answer my original question.

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Why do you think there are some halachas you have to ask a rav and others that you rely on your 'common sense'? Please explain the difference to me.

I just wrote the ones from this page; I also didn't bring down other posters' questions that you haven't yet answered, and also not my questions from other relevant threads on similar topics which you haven't yet addressed.

gryp

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 7:05 pm

Quote:

Do you have a problem with Torah including Torah She'b'al Peh?

mummyof6, ive met people who use the word "Torah" only for the Chumash itself, kind of like the word "Bible." and they use specific names for other sources, like Marion said, "Mishna" for example. thats probably what she means.

gryp

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 7:10 pm

Quote:

Yes, there is a world to come. But I'm not convinced that doing laundry on chol hamoed is enough for me to lose my portion. I'm sure I have a lot more to answer for when the time comes.

If it says so in Avos, then why don't you think so? You're just in trouble that you can't even misquote some halacha this time to justify your actions, so now you are mezalzel the whole halacha.

I dont think that's fair. Marion explained her reasoning. if you want you can have an issue with her Rav, but you can't just accuse her of misquoting the halacha when she is following her Rav.

Marion

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 10:27 pm

mummyof6 wrote:

Marion wrote:

I just want you to know what you're quoting. If you're quoting "Torah" then it's from the chumash. If you're quoting mishna, say you're quoting mishna. If you're quoting Rashi, say so.

I didn't say Chumash, I said Torah. Do you have a problem with Torah including Torah She'b'al Peh?

Quote:

Yes, there is a world to come. But I'm not convinced that doing laundry on chol hamoed is enough for me to lose my portion. I'm sure I have a lot more to answer for when the time comes.

If it says so in Avos, then why don't you think so? You're just in trouble that you can't even misquote some halacha this time to justify your actions, so now you are mezalzel the whole halacha.

Quote:

I believe I HAVE answered all your questions. If, however, you'd like to put them into one post and number them so that I can actually see what you're asking, feel free.

Quote:

Are you Orthodox Jews who run your lives according to halacha or 'common sense'?

Quote:

I asked whether you put on a light on Shabbos if it's too dark. Isn't that common sense? Or if there is only treif available and you want somewhere to eat? Please answer my original question.

Quote:

Why do you think there are some halachas you have to ask a rav and others that you rely on your 'common sense'? Please explain the difference to me.

1. Yes, we are Orthodox Jews who live our lives according to halacha, with a good dose of common sense thrown in. Halacha doesn't preclude using your common sense. Common sense includes not picking up the phone to call the Rav when you've already asked him the same question 3 times...the answer's not going to change this time.

2. and 3. I already addressed these. I eat on Yom Kippur if I have a heter for shiurim. Otherwise, are you just looking for trouble? I live in Ma'ale Adumim...what are the chances of there being only treif restaurants around? (oops, sorry, that answer requires common sense.) And since I have a Shabbat clock it doesn't get so dark that I would have to turn on another light. You're asking in circles.

4. Halacha and common sense go hand in hand. Once I've asked a Rav I can rely on that answer the next time around. That's both halacha AND common sense.

Why is any of this relevant to this thread? The question was what we each do about laundry on chol hamoed...I answered. Sorry you don't like my opinion.

raizy

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 11:32 pm

marion some pple do really thing that bye them bashing other pple they will get a better alom haba. and also if they dont wash any laundry they will also get an alom habo.

crayon210 stop being so judgemental on others.

and bye the way YES my kid pished in 2 different beds. same kid. and one kid did throw up. I had at least 3 loads just of stinky smelly wet towels. from it all the spilling etc. so what is your suggestion that I leave it for nine days till asru chag. now dont be funny . they would have all rotten and spoiled. so I washed a few loads. so what does that mean that I am not as "frum" as u . your royal highness would have left it to spoil and rot!!!

shalhevet

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 3:20 am

raizy wrote:

marion some pple do really thing that bye them bashing other pple they will get a better alom haba.

Who has been bashing? People have been clarifying the halacha.

Quote:

and also if they dont wash any laundry they will also get an alom habo.

אני מאמין באמונה שלמה שהבורא, ית' שמו גומל טוב לשומרי מצותיו ומעניש לעוברי מצותיו
I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His Name, rewards those who keep his commandments, and punishes those who transgress his commandments.
(Rambam, 11th of the 13 Principles of Faith)

Quote:

crayon210 stop being so judgemental on others.

For example? shock

Where did you see that exactly?

Quote:

and bye the way YES my kid pished in 2 different beds. same kid. and one kid did throw up. I had at least 3 loads just of stinky smelly wet towels. from it all the spilling etc. so what is your suggestion that I leave it for nine days till asru chag. now dont be funny . they would have all rotten and spoiled. so I washed a few loads. so what does that mean that I am not as "frum" as u . your royal highness would have left it to spoil and rot!!!

Have you read any of this thread at all, instead of just getting annoyed at people who don't think like you do? It has been mentioned numerous times that you are allowed to wash children's things. And the towels you can hang up to dry without washing them. Maybe a rav would have said you can wash them if it was so unbearable or would have been ruined.

shalhevet

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 3:33 am

Marion you still haven't addressed my questions at all. Yes, I am going around in circles because I have kept asking the same questions and got comments which don't answer them.

You say that if you want to do laundry on Chol Hamoed you will rely on your common sense and ignore the halacha. You do not think you have to ask a rav or follow the Shulchan Aruch. (Correct me if I am wrong up to here)

I asked you if you have another situation where common sense conflicts with halacha, which you will follow. I gave several examples. Instead of answering you said you will not be in such a situation. I ASK YOU AGAIN. If you were in such a situation what would you do? If you were in the dark on Shabbat, and your Shabbat clock had turned out the lights already, and you hadn't left a night light on, and you don't have a Shabbos lamp, and you can't open the door to another room to let the light in, and it isn't yet morning, and you need to find something. (Is the scenario clear now?)
So what would you do? Follow halacha or common sense?

You said you would ask if you needed a heter to eat on YK but you wouldn't ask if you needed a heter to launder on Chol Hamoed. So I asked you to define which halachos, by your definition, you need to ask a rav about and which not.
Again, you have not answered the question at all. Who was talking about calling 3 times to ask the same question?

Now can I have answers please?

mali

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 6:30 am

mummyof6, forget it! Marion's next post will be her last one for this thread, going about in circles again and telling you she has already addressed your questions. She understood your questions, but has no answers. Face it.

Crayon210

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 12:33 pm

raizy wrote:

crayon210 stop being so judgemental on others.

It's ironic that you say this in light of the following:

raizy wrote:

marion some pple do really thing that bye them bashing other pple they will get a better alom haba. and also if they dont wash any laundry they will also get an alom habo.

Saying that someone did the wrong thing is not judgmental. It's factual.

Quote:

so what is your suggestion that I leave it for nine days till asru chag. now dont be funny . they would have all rotten and spoiled. so I washed a few loads. so what does that mean that I am not as "frum" as u . your royal highness would have left it to spoil and rot!!!

I'd call a rav who would probably say it's fine.

If he didn't, guess what? Keeping halacha is worth $50.

Marion

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 1:50 pm

I've already asked the Rav about laundry on chol hamoed, so I don't need to ask him again.

If the light's off, the light's off (although I've heard that you can "advance" the Shabbat clock to make it come on earlier, but we don't go by that).

And if there wasn't going to be anywhere to eat I'd pack lunch.

Does that answer your questions?

Marion

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 1:52 pm

mali wrote:

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

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