Do People Save? | Imamother

Seraph

Sat, Jun 25 2011, 4:33 pm

amother wrote:

I actually agree with the op's husband. Hashem does not want His children to be so obsessed with money.Being so incredibly frugal as some people here borders on avoidah zara even though they try to pass it off as a mitzvah. Do your bit and Hashem will provide. Hashem does not expect His daughters to make their own hygiene products -this is taking us back to the middle ages! Don't squander but enjoy sharing what you have with others and He will see to our needs.

Hashem doesnt expect us to be so materialistic that a little bit of dirty work seems "beneath our dignity". Kohanim in the bais hamikdash did REAL dirty work, as did our grandparents and even mothers in many ways. Just because we live in a spoiled generation doesnt mean that being NON spoiled is avoda zara. In fact, an obsession and reliance on material things IS more avoda zara than the other way around.

And if you want to talk halacha, halacha (rambam, for the record) says it is assur to purposely put yourself in a situation where you'll need to rely on handouts from others. Not saving money if it is at ALL possible would be doing exactly that- deciding that you'll rely on tzedaka in the future. THAT is probably more assur than making your own hygiene products.

Raisin

Sat, Jun 25 2011, 6:46 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

Isn't there a pisgom about people who spend more than they earn?
.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound ought and six, result misery.

From david copperfeild by charles Dickens.

Barbara

Sat, Jun 25 2011, 10:33 pm

amother wrote:

Save? What does that word mean? Anyone that can save should be paying more school fees if they are not already paying it in full.

That's ridiculous.

Anyone who can scrape together an extra 2 cents should have some savings. What happens if you have an unexpected medical bill, or have to be out out of work on disability for some time? Or need to replace an appliance (oven, even a vacuum cleaner) or complete a home repair. No one should be in a position where they have to decide whether to fix their child's broken tooth or put food on the table. And no tuition committee should -- or as far as I know, does -- demand that of families. Savings are necessary.

And the more you can save -- for emergencies, for large purchases, for simchas, for retirement -- the better.

ora_43

Sat, Jun 25 2011, 11:45 pm

OP, I agree with previous posters that savings are important, but I agree with your dh that you don't need to worry if you can't save at a particular time for whatever reason.

It sounds like you aren't in a position to save now, but could realistically be able to save later, if you can replace the income being eliminated. If you had no reason to anticipate being able to save money in the future I'd say there's some cause for concern, but I think it's very normal to have temporary periods where you can't save. Most people I know, even the wealthy, have been there at some point, whether due to grad school or illness or tuition or whatever else. As long as you have a realistic plan (eg. "save $200 a month once I can replace my second income," not "save $50,000 in the year after my oldest finishes high school") IMHO you should be OK.

amother

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 9:16 am

save I wish I could save I am always asking my husband to set up some sort of saving acc. and at least put 100 shekel a month away he says its impossible he is in kollel I am working and we just seem to live month to month and when something happens ie our fridge broke after 5 years w couldn't replace it and we had to call around family to help us what could we do we needed a fridge!
I work very hard in my field of training but I wish someone had told me how over flooded the market was and how low paying my job really is before I had learnt it
I've tried very hard to get my husband in a mode of we can save and we've just made some more cuts in our shabbos shopping (no wine, soda, meat etc) also here the food prices are so high I think we need to start cutting out cheese! what will we eat!?
anyways thanks for letting me vent... any ideas?

amother

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 10:06 am

amother wrote:

How about the husband goes to work? A man can learn in kollel if he eats pas bmelech. But his wife and children have to agree to that lifestyle. If you want to eat meat and cheese, and other things, the earnings have to exceed the expenses. Either you both work, or you both find other ways of making more money so that you can make ends meet.

amother

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 10:13 am

People with self esteem save first, then decide if what they want to spend $ on, is a need or a want.
Of course, if people have more expenses than what their earnings are, its impossible to save.
Its very important to save money from day 1 of your marriage, and savings should be the priority.
Many young couples just want to have fun, and not think of the future, so they go on vacations, buy anything they want, and just spend it all. Then they start having children and the expenses rise, and they are clueless. By the time their kids get married, if they are girls, the girls go to work right after high school and manage to save up enough money to pay for their weddings. For boys they try to seek girls that will pay for everything. More or less, while this can work most of the time, there is still never enough, so the extra money comes from gmachim or donations. At that point, there is no self esteem or self respect.
Here is a true story that explains this mindset.
I have heard one woman, while driving a late model minivan, ask for tzedaka to marry her child, and say to someone, I am asking you to donate, which is a mitzva for you and a benefit to me. After all, if you dont have anyone to donate to, then how will you do the mitzva of tzedaka? So Hashem put me here in front of you to collect that money! Thank you! I take it with pleasure, because that is how Hashem created the world, he gave you the money, and he put me here to take it from you.
She married off in style, in luxury, because there are always enough fools to provide her with her "needs".

amother

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 10:19 am

Barbara wrote:

amother wrote:

Save? What does that word mean? Anyone that can save should be paying more school fees if they are not already paying it in full.

I would love to save, but how? My husband and I both work. We make too much to get any benefits. The yeshivos and schools all see our income and will not give any tuition reductions. We live in a too small apartment because we cannot afford to pay more in rent. It is now nearly the end of the month and our account is overdrawn by nearly $100 and we still owe money to the grocery. I was so embarrassed to turn away a meshulach last week--I couldn't even find a quarter to give him! We don't have dental insurance (too expensive), so my kids have not been to the dentist, although they need to and do have cavities.

I agree savings are necessary, but there are those of us who really and truly live paycheck to paycheck without any extras. I don't have even an extra 2 cents.

rydys

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 10:30 am

[quote="Seraph"]

amother wrote:

And if you want to talk halacha, halacha (rambam, for the record) says it is assur to purposely put yourself in a situation where you'll need to rely on handouts from others.

This always makes me wonder how kollel is mutar. In a yisochar-zevulun relationship, the zevulun goes to the yisochor and says "I want to support you while you learn". That, I understand. In kollel, the yisochor goes to the zevulun and says "I am going to sit and learn and you have to support me" It is backward!

Seraph

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 11:51 am

rydys wrote:

Seraph wrote:

And if you want to talk halacha, halacha (rambam, for the record) says it is assur to purposely put yourself in a situation where you'll need to rely on handouts from others.

Don't ask me. But then again, not everyone in kollel lives off of tzedaka, there are some kollel people living better than I am.
Kollel is neither here nor there in this discussion. This discussion is if someone should decide not to save, if it is at all possible, because they plan on asking for tzedaka.

rydys

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 6:23 pm

Seraph wrote:

rydys wrote:

Seraph wrote:

And if you want to talk halacha, halacha (rambam, for the record) says it is assur to purposely put yourself in a situation where you'll need to rely on handouts from others.

actually, that's my point. the "kollel stipend" IS tzedaka. it is the yisochor (kollel member) going to the zevulun (those who support the kollel) and saying "I am going to sit and learn, you support me". These are people who make a decision to live off of tzedaka. Tuition reduction is also a form of tzedaka--someone else has to pay more to make up the difference.

I was responding to the post about putting oneself in a position to live off of tzedaka. At what point is it mutar to accept these forms of tzedaka, when one is capable of working for a living?

eschaya

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 7:24 pm

Dh didn't use to "believe in" saving (probably as a product of the yeshiva system) while it is nearly an obsession with me. I've won him over though, and we have recently begun saving in earnest. We don't lock ourselves in putting aside every month, but we do try to put away a larger sum every quarter. Slowly, slowly... nothing significant yet, but it is a safety cushion and is satisfying nonetheless.

life'sgreat

Sun, Jun 26 2011, 7:42 pm

ElTam wrote:

For those living paycheck to paycheck...take a hard look at what you are spending on. There is usually something you can eliminate to put into savings instead.

I think that's a very ignorant thing to say. There are so many couples that have cut everything possible and still live paycheck to paycheck (if they even manage that).