PSA NEVER give a Mazal tov/Bsha Tovaunless you know 1000%!

amother

Fri, Jun 03 2011, 1:08 pm

I agree. It did actually make me laugh in amongst all the sadness and frustration! Even funnier, the same girl asked me three weeks ago (6 months after the failed IVF) if I had any children. I've been teaching her since before I was even married, I don't know when she thinks I carried and delivered a baby!

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

"you're carrying beautifully."

What does that even mean? I really don't understand why some people think it is OK to comment on something so personal, especially something they can't control like how you're carrying the baby. If someone is NOT carry beautifully ( whatever that means) wha are they supposed to do about it?

718

Fri, Jun 03 2011, 4:54 pm

freidasima wrote:

But there is a flip side. There are a lot of women who get upset when people DONT mention, DONT ask and seemingly ignore the growing stomach or the stomach that is gone after giving birth. So how do you go about not offending one group while also not offending the other?

My way of going about it in all cases is going up to a woman who I know and who looks very pregnant or one who was pregnant and doesn't look like it any more and ask "how do you feel?" or "how are you feeling?" in a concerned way. If everything is fine I get an answer but then about the baby or about the pregnancy if they want to share. If it isn't fine and they want to share that, that gives them the opportunity to do that as well. If all is well then I add the "mazeltov" after hearing from them. If it is not my question gives them an opening if they want it, to talk. And if they don't and just answer "fine" and not mention anything else, I say "good" and go on to the next subject. That way the ones who would be upset that I didn't mention have had their opening and it's pretty obvious, and those who don't aren't offended.

You cant please everyone.

OP you are 100% right. Its not coming from a bad place, but since there are so many other reason why people can "look" pregnant, one needs to be very cautios.
Last year I was very overweight and bought myself a dress and didnt care that I looked pregnant. I made an announcment to all neighbors the first time that I wore it, that Im not pregnant, Im just fat. I got curious glances and didnt want to have to endure that.

amother

Fri, Jun 03 2011, 5:14 pm

Sorry, but I think it's strange, at least in my circle, to not ask someone how they're doing after birth until you know whether the baby is alive and well. Doesn't that seem odd to you? To just ignore that the mom is no longer pregnant until you know the baby didn't die? I've had my own string of miscarriages so I understand the pain to some extent but let's be honest, the percent of stillbirths is so small; I think I have the right to assume that the no longer pregnant mom in my community did have a baby and that the baby is alive. I'm wishing her well, wondering how she's doing etc - and if something horrible g-d forbid did happen she can quietly let me know.

My mother died recently...should people never mention mothers in case they are no longer living? Hey, ya never know, don't assume I still have one, right? So just don't mention moms around me.

718

Fri, Jun 03 2011, 6:16 pm

I guess once u come in contact with people who lost their babies, or babies who had to stay in the hosptial, or women who "lost" babies but maybe had to give them up because they are severely handicaped... Etc etc
unless I see the baby I don't just assume they left it at home.
I'm just very careful.

But I had a friend who had mutliples who stayed in the hospital and I always asked how they're doing. Some people completely ignored the fact that she had them.
It's a hard line to walk
but I deff don't just assume all is right.

Isramom8

Sat, Jun 04 2011, 4:34 pm

I don't know, maybe we should be a little less assuming even though it's unnatural. A few weeks after a relative got married, my mother asked the chosson's father in a friendly tone, "So, how's the new couple doing?" He answered, "They're not getting along too well." My mother laughed, especially since this relative has a dry sense of humor. Next thing we knew, the couple got divorced. shock

Well, we can't really say we weren't warned.

My thin neighbor went on vacation, and when I saw her a few weeks later, she had a newborn! I wished her mazal tov, and asked if she was nursing. It turns out that on "vacation" the couple had adopted their daughter. (I assumed she just carried really small or that I didn't see her around towrds the end of her pregnancy.) She explained, "We didn't want our older daughter to be an only child." CLICK. "Oh, your older daughter was also adopted?" shock

The girl had been best friends with my daughter for the entire year at gan, and I had no idea. I felt terribly nervous that maybe I had said something hurtful inadvertantly during the whole school year, when I didn't know that the child had been adopted.

Last edited by Isramom8 on Sat, Jun 04 2011, 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

BusyBeeMommy

Sat, Jun 04 2011, 10:56 pm

amother wrote:

Maybe it is a little over-cautious not to mention something until you know the baby is okay. But for those who've experienced it from either end (commenting or the recipient of a comment), even once, it's uncomfortable enough to make them over-cautious for the rest of their lives. I don't think, however, that it's appropriate to comment on one's pregnancy (unless she's a good friend of yours) at all, whether they're pregnant or not. If they want you to know, or they want to talk about it, they will initiate. Silence is golden.

estibesty

Sat, Jun 04 2011, 11:17 pm

Sweet Valley Gal wrote:

I agree.

A bunch of us mothers were standing in a circle outside today and in middle of the conversation, one mother looks at me, and at my stomach and says, hey... you're pregnant? I am actually not, and I felt so stupid. She felt even more stupid when I blushed a thousand color reds and said no im not... Sad

But it wasnt a good moment for me.

worse feeling ever!

amother

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 12:14 am

amother wrote:

I once has a bizzarre experience. Someone I didnt know very well, but I knew she had been pregnant recently, was at an event with me. I saw her holding a newborn baby so went up to her to wish her mazal tov - assuming it was her baby.
She replied "oh this isnt my baby - my baby died. I am babysitting this baby" aghhhhh felt like an idiot but was I think she forgave me for making the mistake.

by me Baruch Hashem I didn't lose a baby although I did lose a pregnancy. I was married over a year and it has not been an easy year and am older and would love to have a child already and also was at a wedding watching a friends baby when someone asked me if it was mine. Oh how I wanted to say it was mine and it was hurtful and uncomfortable that the person assumed it was mine so thank you OP for bringing up this PSA.

Also OP I am terribly sorry for your pain!! may you only have simchos!

amother

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 2:03 am

To the amother who asked if no one should talk about mothers in front of anyone cause "maybe" they lost a mother. I think you're a bit off topic! No one Is saying you shouldn't talk about a baby or engagement in front of anyone "just in case". We're saying you should not be asking people questions or saying anything that might be hurtful.
eg. " are you pregnant"? Its none of your business, if she'd want you to know, she'd tell you!

Isramom, why in heavens name would you tell a thin person (you never saw pregnant) mazel tov, even if she's holding a new born?! And what is it your business if she's nursing???!! Rolling Eyes

even if you know someone who did have a baby, and you see her with the baby, why would you ask such a private question?! This is another thing to think about. what if she so badly wanted to nurse but had complications, she didn't want people to know!
You see a person with a baby. you smile, say how cute the baby is. And if the person wants to share, she'll share, if not, then you know its not for you to know.

My niece just gave birth to a very sick Downs Syndrome little girl. For some reason (they did testing first) they didn't tell us till a few weeks after the baby was born. Till we found out, we kept talking to my niece about when she'll be bringing the baby home (she was born premature and was kept in the hospital) how its "gonna be" with 2 kids at home (she has a 2 year old) ....... When we found out she won't be bringing the baby home! (Her rebbe said she shouldn't) in our case it really was another story, we knew she had a baby, didn't hear anything was wrong.......but I still felt terrible that I've been saying certain things to her. And she knew before the baby was born about it. No one knew, and I'm sure she was hurting with ANY comment!
Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't say anything to any pregnant lady "cause you never know" but don't ASK, don't say anything until she brings the subject up. If someone doesn't bring it up, you don't know if there's anything wrong, or if she's just not comfortable talking about it!

Happy 2B

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 2:23 am

freidasima wrote:

To answer the first part of your post. I'd much rather insult a pregnant friend by not commenting then hurt someone who lost a pregnancy or child Lo oleinu! They are suffering enough already!!

Isramom8

Sun, Jun 05 2011, 2:34 am

"Isramom, why in heavens name would you tell a thin person (you never saw pregnant) mazel tov, even if she's holding a new born?! And what is it your business if she's nursing???!! even if you know someone who did have a baby, and you see her with the baby, why would you ask such a private question?! This is another thing to think about. what if she so badly wanted to nurse but had complications, she didn't want people to know!"

See, I was trying to be sensitive. Instead of asking (as, in my experience, women do when they are friendly), "How's the nursing going?" I had read that it's more sensitive to ask, "Are you nursing?" and not just assume.

Why wouldn't I think that she had a baby when she walks into my home holding a newborn to pick up her child, and sits down to shmooze? She looked proud and possesive, not like she was the babysitter.

I'm happy to learn how to become more sensitive; I just feel like this is a never-ending challenge you can't always win.

I also think different chevras are different. Where I used to live, the women were more open about sharing pregnancy, nursing and labor details; where I live now they are more reserved in this area. I used to hear the minutes from everyone's labor - now it's just, "B"H it was fine" or "B"H it's over".

torahtots

Sun, Aug 28 2011, 4:26 pm

amother wrote:

No-one's saying "don't mention pregnancy/babies." They're saying don't wish someone mazal tov if you don't know they had a baby. It's the same courtesy as not wishing someone b'shaah tova if you don't know they're pregnant. Maybe it's not as obvious - but then, not wishing b'shaah tova is not obvious to many people either. They see a belly and assume there's a baby inside.

zaq

Sun, Aug 28 2011, 6:01 pm

amother wrote:

How distressing for you, but what other conclusion could you possibly have reached? What, every time you see a formerly pg woman cradling an infant you'll ask "is that your baby?" You know what'll happen? Dirty looks, snappish responses like "What did you think--I kidnapped her?" "Who else's baby would it be?" "No--it's my husband's mistress's, but since she's single, dh and I are bringing the baby up" and irritated posts on imamother to the effect of "how stupid can people get? I was holding my newborn at a chassunah and this lady I knew not too well came up to me and had the chutzpah to ask me if it was my baby! Did you ever??????"

lilacdreams

Sun, Aug 28 2011, 7:10 pm

zaq wrote:

amother wrote:

well seeingas you are quoting me, maybe it was me - scared to death to repeat the same mistake as the above experience!

chavamom

Sun, Aug 28 2011, 7:16 pm

freidasima wrote:

It's true.