Shocked by Pesach Hotel Thread

Posted: Tue, Apr 12 2011, 11:55 pm Post subject: Shocked by Pesach Hotel Thread

I am just appalled by the thread posted on here about whether Hashem intended us to go to Pesach hotels.

I cannot believe the responses that OP got! Almost unanimously, people not only did not understand her point, they even found it condescending. This is so sad to me, and really makes me feel alientated from my "community." [ Disclaimer- Let me first say I think it's fine to go on a program, especially once a lifetime or once in a while, and I dont think it is the end of the world]. HOWEVER, it seems so utterly obvious to me that this Pesach Program phenomenon is NOT ideal, and a construction of our modern sensibilities. It is such a reflection of our consumeristic, Americanized, materialistic lives. [ Disclaimer- Before all of you jump on me, I dont mean those things as insults- I say them as I wear my Bannana Republic slippers acknowledging I am a consumer myself] BUT those qualities are clearly to some extent, at odds with our Jewish identities.

I am in what Id call a modern yeshivish community and am WAY too familiar with how people talk about these programs. It is all about being on the right program with the "right" families, the who's who, what outfits you will wear to impress, and all that jazz. The social aspect is overwhelmingly prevalent, and to me, drowns out the authentic, Jewish feeling of Pesach.

To me, the feeling of being in one's home, our mini bait hamikdash, and the ultimate place where education should occur for our children, at our father's seder, is just absolutely precious. It most probably may be the sfardi in me, but I am sure glad because it seems just so strange to spend such an intimate and critical holiday at some Hilton Hotel! From my experience, Sfardim in general tend to place a much heavier emphasis on home and family, even at the expense of friends and socializing.

Oh and to all of those posters on that original thread talking about being too dead tired after cleaning for Pesach to celebrate the seder properly.. there are too many things wrong with what you all were saying to even count. Something is really off if we cant ONCE A YEAR, clean our houses and prepare nice meals for chag. Have your kids "help" even if it means they jumble things up youve already cleaned. Toss a large salad, roast some chicken and veggies maybe a london broil, and make a soup... keep the menu simple and delicious... Why the need to impress with over the top crazy menus- this should not take over your existence for 6 months- and then say it's too hard, we have to forget it and go away to a hotel????? There is no escaping that it IS work, but this work is a mitzvah... and doesnt have to be turned into an imsurmountable hill.

Honestly, many weeks I feel exhausted from prepping for Shabbos- should I just do takeout regularly? Even when my feet are killing me, I am stressed from work, and I barely make it in time for candles, once it is Shabbos or Yom Tov I feel what a labor of love it is. So I do understand if someone wants to go on a program, but I find it SOOOO self serving and ridiculous how many people were claiming they HAVE to go to a hotel in order to properly observe the holiday!!! Just... totally... bewildered...

I am just wondering where the other voices are, the ones who understand what that original OP was saying. To answer her Q, I dont pretend to know what Hashem ever has in mind, but in my opinion Holiday Inn was not meant to refer to yom tov!!

Executive Member Joined: Jul 24 2008 Posts: 316

To the above poster:

SOOO well put! Have nothing to add

Gold Member Joined: Jan 12 2010 Posts: 2272 Location: US

I didn't get the impression that the responders on that thread all go to hotels, but just that they didn't feel that it's right to pass judgement on those who do because each family is living individual circumstances which we really don't know the details. I personally can't relate to the whole idea to have a strong opinion because most people I know don't go.

Now as far as being relaxed seder night - your suggestions are good , but easier said than done.

Some people don't want to do all the work and want to enjoy themselves. If they have the money to do so why is it your concern? So you think it is better to do it at home. Good. Have it at home. Why shouldn't those who want to go away and can afford to do so?

Why can't those who can afford to do so order take out for Shabbat, or hire cooks and maids.

My dh, children and I have been cleaning for Pesach. We both also work, but as he works from home more of the work is falling on his shoulders. So if we had money to hire I'd hire. WHY NOT.

Honestly, what I don't get is the judgement.
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HindaRochel,
Please read the original post before responding. Your response really doesnt address what I am saying at all, and also seems to be what is most judgmental.

What Rachel Ann said.

Honestly, I only have one friend who goes away to a program for Pesach. She's a single mom, partially disabled.

I have one other friend who packs up and goes to friends for Pesach, on those years when her ex has the kids.

But I just don't get why on earth would anyone think that I'm doing some bigger mitzvah than them because I'm cleaning my refrigerator.

Or that my friend who cleans her huge house all on her own is doing a bigger mitzvah than me, because in light of the fact that my DH has been sick in bed for nearly 3 weeks now, and I've been working 12 hours a day, I broke down and called a cleaning service that will not only get rid of every last crumb, but will also clean my light fixtrues and baseboards.

Pesach isn't about making sure that we don't have a crumb on the floor. After all, a crumb isn't chametz. And if my curtains are a little dingy, well, dirt isn't chametz either. Pesach is about telling the story of how we -- you and me -- left Egypt, and moved from slavery to freedom. Its about thinking about what that freedom, and conversely, slavery, means. Its about eating mindfully, so that we really remember to thank Hashem for what we have. And, for me at least, its about remembering my family who can't be here with me, as I make the foods that they made for me when I was a child.
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I agree that staying home in our mini beis haMikdash is so important. How do I envision my children teaching our grandchildren about yitzias mitzrayim? That's what I want to role model. I think we drive ourselves out of the house because we make it overwhelming. The message we give is that Hashem made this mitzva too much for us. But really we make it too much for us.

To add to this post, one might hear Rebbetzin Heller on Naaleh. In the first 15 minutes she lays out how the essence of this holiday is rooted in its own simplicity. After all, matza is the simplest of foods.

Chag kasher v'samayech and pashut~

It does.
You are wondering why so many people were responded to her post and how they were responding and that you didn't feel that it was ideal to go to a hotel.

I think it isn't anyone else's concern how they deal with Passover.
I think it is judgmental to state "This isn't ideal".
It isn't your ideal. It is someone else's is.
And if that is the way they want to do it, then you get your spiritual lift your way, someone else will get it there way and everyone can be happy.

You state you don't pretend to know what Hashem wants.
Good. Maybe Hashem would prefer you not cleaning and that you go to a hotel with other Yidden and enjoy a group Pesach. Or maybe Hashem would prefer we all head to Jerusalem even if we can't do the korban Pesach and have Seder out there in the open in the Courtyard.

So it comes down to judgment. I don't get the judgment. People want to go to a hotel and have the money, let them. Just because you clean and prep a nice meal even though your feet are killing you doesn't mean Shira down the street must do the same.

Her money, her decision.

Hinda Rochel,

Ill only dignify your posts with one more try, but then Ill just move on. I painstakingly clarified that I am not saying people shouldnt go on these programs so please stop telling me "why is it your concern what people do/ it is their money/ mind your own business." I am not concerned with what "Shira" down the street decides this year, but with the concept of celebrating such an important yom tov at a hotel versus in our own homes. Likewise, I am not being judgmental of others in the way you insinuate, though I may be judging the concept of being at a hotel versusin our own homes. There is nothing wrong with evaluating and judging such concepts- and this is the right forum to do so.

I really am happy to hear other ladies out there saying they understand my point- it was a refreshing turn Very Happy

I especially liked the one poster called "Family First" or something like that. I thought that was very appropriate!

Platinum Member Joined: May 22 2005 Posts: 13795

No energy for a big post, but OP - I hear your point 100%.

Gold Member Joined: Oct 20 2010 Posts: 1676

OP- I agree with you mostly.

Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7250

OP, I think there are important differences between what you're saying and what the OP of the other thread was saying. You're making a whole comparison between the atmosphere at home vs. at a hotel, while she was basically making it all about the cleaning and the kavanot a person can have while cleaning.

Maybe she was thinking more or less what you were saying but just didn't express it all.

I think HindaRochel has a good point mentioning gathering in Jerusalem. It's kind of funny to say that the ideal Pesach is at home, when the ideal Pesach is everyone in Jerusalem and at Har Habayit, which for most of us is not home.

Of course, that doesn't prove home isn't better than a hotel, or that it isn't the current ideal, but it's not the ultimate ideal/ "the way things are supposed to be" either.

Gold Member Joined: Jan 12 2010 Posts: 2272 Location: US

Gold Member Joined: Jun 16 2009 Posts: 2082

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Oh and to all of those posters on that original thread talking about being too dead tired after cleaning for Pesach to celebrate the seder properly.. there are too many things wrong with what you all were saying to even count. Something is really off if we cant ONCE A YEAR, clean our houses and prepare nice meals for chag. Have your kids "help" even if it means they jumble things up youve already cleaned. Toss a large salad, roast some chicken and veggies maybe a london broil, and make a soup... keep the menu simple and delicious... Why the need to impress with over the top crazy menus- this should not take over your existence for 6 months- and then say it's too hard, we have to forget it and go away to a hotel????? There is no escaping that it IS work, but this work is a mitzvah... and doesnt have to be turned into an imsurmountable hill.

Really now... and what might you say is wrong with me because I am dead tired at a seder? Do you know me? Do you know my family? Do you know the ages of my kids and what they did and what they did not do and what they are capable of doing? Do you claim to know how much cleaning help I did or did not get as well as ANYTHING about me that would give you, Miss PERFECT AMOTHER the right to even imply that "something is wrong with me?"

Gold Member Joined: Aug 11 2010 Posts: 1295

Platinum Member Joined: Mar 12 2009 Posts: 13192

I'm not sure which thread is the best to post this thought, but there's a lot of talk about how one gets a bigger mitzvah for staying home. I'm thinking of some people I know who go to hotels and I can hear them say, Oh yeah? Well maybe MY scales are weighed down more because I pay full tuition, employ any frum person who needs a job, and so on.

None of us are Hashem's accountants.
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Platinum Member Joined: Nov 01 2009 Posts: 8219

I feel like every time a thread comes up about materialism, it makes me roll my eyes.

I wonder if it stems from jealousy. I know many people say "I wouldn't go to a hotel" or "I wouldn't own XYZ" or "I wouldn't buy takeout" or insert any luxury here.

If you think coooking and cleaning is ideal for your family, go ahead. I'll do what's best for my family.

Shalhevet, many people I know get a ton of new clothing for Yom Tov, whether or not they go away. I didn't get anything. I have 2 things to wear. DH has his suits and isn't getting any new ties. Kids just got a bunch of hand-me-downs. Does that make me a better person than someone who goes out and buys 8 outfits? If so, give me a round of applause!
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