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Amother
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 Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010, 2:42 am Post subject: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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about half a year ago, when I said the word Yoshke with a Y, someone said to me "it's interesting that you're not saying his name out of respect for him." I was shocked by that comment, because it was definitely not out of respect for yoshke that I was not saying his name. I knew that I wasn't supposed to say it for some reason, but didn't know the source. however, months later, I found a source:
There is a Mitzas Lo Sa-sey, a Prohibitive commandment,
not to mention the name of false G-ds.
(Shemos 23:13): "with everything that I have mentioned to you, you should be careful, and the names of other gods you should not mention; they should not be heard from your mouth."
It's in the Torah. It's in the Chumash.
"one should avoid mentioning false gods and their false attitudes. we should not give them any recognition, in order to enable us to focus all of our awareness towards Hashem and His Oneness, as the Creator and Controller of Everything"
from the book "194 mitzvos for today" based on the chafetz chaim's sefer hamitzvos hakatzar.
page 30, "Not to mention the names of false gods"
I think it's important to publicize this, because people might not realize that this is a mitzva straight from the torah that we should not say the names of false gods. I myself did not know this. and neither did the other person that heard me speaking.
in general, recently I was reading this book about the mitzvos for today, and I found it very interesting.
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| Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010, 2:49 am Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| Thank you for this post. May we all grow in mitzvot.
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| Ruchel |
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| Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010, 6:09 am Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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I know of rabbanim who use the names of false gods in discussions.
Interestingly the builder of many shuls went by the nickname Osiris !
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| sequoia |
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| Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010, 6:16 am Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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What if you're a university professor?
Or you're in kiruv/anti-missionary activity?
Or you're reading poetry out loud...
Quoting someone?
Singing "Master of the House" from Les Miserables?
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| Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010, 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Why is OP amother ?
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| amother |
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| Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010, 11:31 am Post subject: Re: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| sequoia wrote: | What if you're a university professor?
Or you're in kiruv/anti-missionary activity?
Or you're reading poetry out loud...
Quoting someone?
Singing "Master of the House" from Les Miserables? |
Speak to a Rav that is familiar with the laws of this Mitzva.
when reading poetry or quoting someone or singing a song, personally, I don't think it's really so necessary to say out the word.
if you're a university professor, you might be better off teaching another subject that does not involve mentioning false gods.
if you're in kiruv or anti-missionary activity, speak to a Posek that is familiar with this Mitzva.
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| Posted: Fri, Dec 17 2010, 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| chocolate moose wrote: | | Why is OP amother ? |
for privacy. this is a private post. I have discussed this with others.
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| Posted: Sat, Dec 18 2010, 12:49 pm Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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Well, I guess I'm doomed.
(And just to add- the majority of Ashkenazi Rishonim do not consider J-s-s a "false god".)
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| Posted: Sat, Dec 18 2010, 1:00 pm Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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Anyway, his name was in Hebrew, Yeshu. Maybe not even Yeshu. Yoshke J esus isn't his real name so maybe it's no problem to say it. Yoshke makes it sound cute, like a joke. I never got the Yoshke part.
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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quote:
| cassandra wrote: | Well, I guess I'm doomed.
(And just to add- the majority of Ashkenazi Rishonim do not consider J-s-s a "false god".) |
maybe "false god" is not the right word.
in the Artscroll chumash, it defines the hebrew words to mean not to mention the names of the gods of others.
there are definitely people who consider him their g-d, so we should not mention his name.
and you're not doomed, you just didn't know. now that you know about this, try not to say his name.
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| Tamiri wrote: | Anyway, his name was in Hebrew, Yeshu. Maybe not even Yeshu. Yoshke J esus isn't his real name so maybe it's no problem to say it. Yoshke makes it sound cute, like a joke. I never got the Yoshke part. |
the people that consider him their god, call him by the J word. so that is the name of their false god.
in regards to what you wrote, I learned that his real name was something else, maybe Yehoshua?
but the rabbanim called him Yeshu, spelled Yud, Shin, Vuv, and this is initials for the words "Yemach Shemo Vizichro".
from that word, people decided that in english his name was J. and that is what they call their g-d.
he was also called a "Ben Meri", a rebellious child, like the words "Ben Sorer Umorer". that is how people misinterpreted and came to the conclusion that his mother's name was mary, although it was originally something else, maybe miriam. they decided that "ben meri" meant the son of mary, when it really meant a rebellious child.
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 1:06 pm Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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If I was a Xtian (lo alenu) I hope I wouldn't be so ignorant to think J-guy bore a name in a language that didn't even exist. Same for Mary, Joseph, Ann, John and cie.
It's a bit like these older Jews who swear Moshe was really called Moïse/Moyses and whoever needs to use Moshe is a fanatic 
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| amother wrote: | | Tamiri wrote: | Anyway, his name was in Hebrew, Yeshu. Maybe not even Yeshu. Yoshke J esus isn't his real name so maybe it's no problem to say it. Yoshke makes it sound cute, like a joke. I never got the Yoshke part. |
the people that consider him their god, call him by the J word. so that is the name of their false god.
in regards to what you wrote, I learned that his real name was something else, maybe Yehoshua?
but the rabbanim called him Yeshu, spelled Yud, Shin, Vuv, and this is initials for the words "Yemach Shemo Vizichro".
from that word, people decided that in english his name was J. and that is what they call their g-d.
he was also called a "Ben Meri", a rebellious child, like the words "Ben Sorer Umorer". that is how people misinterpreted and came to the conclusion that his mother's name was mary, although it was originally something else, maybe miriam. they decided that "ben meri" meant the son of mary, when it really meant a rebellious child. | ahh.
I was told his name was Yeshua.
In any case, what the OP says makes sense to me.
This mitzva is the source for Lubav's to modify various cities' names for ex. Simcha Monica, S. Peterburg, (not sounding out the first part of the name, just the S.) etc.
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| Ruchel wrote: | If I was a Xtian (lo alenu) I hope I wouldn't be so ignorant to think J-guy bore a name in a language that didn't even exist. Same for Mary, Joseph, Ann, John and cie.
It's a bit like these older Jews who swear Moshe was really called Moïse/Moyses and whoever needs to use Moshe is a fanatic |
Ok, who is Ann?
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 1:25 pm Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| Ann is Mary's mom, if I'm not mistaken.
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| amother wrote: |
he was also called a "Ben Meri", a rebellious child, like the words "Ben Sorer Umorer". that is how people misinterpreted and came to the conclusion that his mother's name was mary, although it was originally something else, maybe miriam. they decided that "ben meri" meant the son of mary, when it really meant a rebellious child. |
Amother, the above is fascinating to me (the progression of the name). Could you provide a source of where you read this? I'd like to look this up further. Very very interesting. Thanks!
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| Yocheved84 wrote: | | amother wrote: |
he was also called a "Ben Meri", a rebellious child, like the words "Ben Sorer Umorer". that is how people misinterpreted and came to the conclusion that his mother's name was mary, although it was originally something else, maybe miriam. they decided that "ben meri" meant the son of mary, when it really meant a rebellious child. |
Amother, the above is fascinating to me (the progression of the name). Could you provide a source of where you read this? I'd like to look this up further. Very very interesting. Thanks! |
I think I was taught this in high school.
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 5:08 pm Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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| It's funny that you should post this, because it just came up at our table this shabbos. I have yet to speak to our Rav about how to resolve the issue, since I don't know a single person who is not chayav for this almost every day of their life, since it has become everyday language to mention 'false gods' in our daily speech, such as all the Greek mythology gods: muse, pandora's box, themis, narcissism, etc. Just walking by a court house means you pass by an avoda zara statue...
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 5:13 pm Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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I once was a substitute teacher in public school. A lot of hispanic kids are named after Yoske, but pronounce the "J" as an "H".
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| Posted: Sun, Dec 19 2010, 5:37 pm Post subject: re: mitzvah- Not to mention the names of false gods. |
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Here's another god whose name I've heard modified:
Simcha Klutz! (Santa Claus)
I've also heard Halloween as ChallaQueen... 
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