Mess and poverty

Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 9:20 am Post subject: re: mess and poverty

liba, thanks

Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 9:24 am Post subject: Re: mess and poverty

Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 9:32 am Post subject:

I never said or implied that I started the thread and I didn't. I never said I didn't read your replies, just that they are long winded and from a very narrow understanding of the challenges that people face. They show a lack of understanding of the possible causes of dysfunction within a home.

Your apology I read after I sent my previous message, but that isn't what is needed. Your understanding is what is needed.

Your posts said that there are no valid reasons for messy homes when in reality there are some homes were it makes perfect sense. Someone like you, with your organizational skills and drive, could help make a difference. One more job, just donating 2-3 hours a day, and helping others shouldn't keep you from doing all you need to do since you are the true Akeres Habayis and it could make all of the difference for several families.

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if people come into my house it's clean, and organized because thats who I am, I like things in their place.

however, my white walls, all of them are white, have black finger prints and marks from the stroller tires and a bit of crayon and when I see it, it kind of eats at me.

but painting my whole house (if I'm bringing in a painter I am not doing JUST my living room, I will paint the whole house) will cost money and the time and effort that goes into picking out colors, and then if I give the house about 2 years time the walls will be dirty again, maybe not AS dirty but it will be, because that is what happens with little kids.

Maybe in a few months when I've checked some more stuff off of my large to do list, I'll spend the time and take a magic eraser and clean the walls of my living room.

I am definitely comfortable but not rich by any means. If I had 5-10K lying around I probably wouldnt use it to paint my house, I would put into savings so when our 7 year old car decides to die (I pray to Hashem that it lasts at least another 5 years if not 10) we have the funds to replace it, or if our water heater or air conditioner or anything else aroudn the house decides to break we can replace it without financial burden.

but my cleanliness is not tied to my financial status, but to my need to want to be organized and clean.

Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 11:27 am Post subject: Re: re: mess and poverty

Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: re: mess and poverty

Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: re: mess and poverty

Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2010, 12:48 pm Post subject: re: mess and poverty

I think people are just reading the OP's question differently.

Most seem to be reading "are poverty and mess connected" as "does poverty make mess more likely," while Akeret Habayis seems to be reading it as, "are poor people usually messy."

I initially wasn't sure which way to read it... I agree that poverty makes it harder to overcome factors that can make it hard to keep a home clean, but I also agree with Akeret Habayis that poverty in and of itself doesn't cause mess. And the stereotype of poor people as living in dirt and neglect (which is tied to the stereotype of poor people as lazy), to the extent that it exists, is offensive.

Beginner Joined: Nov 30 2010 Posts: 19

I think there is a lot of guilt we feel when we cannot be superwoman ALL of the time, instead of 20/24/7...and there is guilt associated anyway with not having enough $ for everything you need.

anyone who is working many hours to help her dh support the family, along with all the wife/mother kinda stuff that is a given, is by definition superwoman. anyoen who isn't working, just takes care of little kids and manages a home, is a good candidate for that title, too. we psyche ourselves into doing as much as we can, and then twice again as much. but superwoman - that person who has koach for it all and never fails - is a myth. she doesn't exist. sometimes we think she does...sometimes we might even think she lives in our house. but it isn't true.

for years I had no cleaning help. I had small kids and worked VERY hard out of the house. the truth is, I wasn't managing. my house (such as it was) was icky. I was embarassed. an older woman sympathetically told me I was doing myself an injustice by not having help. I thought she was in la-la land because, first of all, how were we supposed to pay for cleaning help when we barely had food for shabbos? but more than that, I was disappointed with myself, because I felt that I SHOULD have been able to do it all. with time I have learned that when you are not managing, there is usually a good reason. Smile

and if you don't understand that now, just wait.
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Posted: Fri, Dec 03 2010, 12:35 am Post subject: re: mess and poverty

I've always been a slob, so I can't blame poverty.
However, not having money makes it harder.

1. It is hard to give up on what I have, knowing I can't replace it. It is easier for me than dh though.

2. I am exhausted, stressed and depressed. Also there are medical issues, some probably do to the stress (near constant stomach ache for one) I have a cough that won't quit that is aggravated by the cold and damp. Dressing warm doesn't help, heating the house would, but we can't afford to keep the house warm for me. Long hot showers/baths would also help, but are also infrequent.

3, Feeling like why bother? My couch is ugly, it is third hand, my chair the same, I cover them both and want to cry most of the time because I'm ashamed. We have a plate of glass missing in our breakfront, but no money to get it replaced (dh isn't handy like that...we actually have the glass). We are running out of dishes...literally...we have too few plates and bowels. It just seems like an uphill battle, so the cleaning up gets pushed down.

Really, if you don't like the way someone is living, if you feel they are living in a mess, how about giving them a hand?
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Beginner Joined: Oct 18 2011 Posts: 5

Yikes!! I have to diagree with you. Have you ever had $7 in your account with no income to look forward to?? I have. With 7 people in our family, things get pretty darn messy. When mommy has health issues and can't clean it all the time, and tatti has slipped discs in his back and can't bend over or lift, you can imagine the disaster. It's like the wake of an elephant stampede. We don't have a lot: cabinets, dressers, and storage of any kind being one of them. When the only place for your things is the floor...use your imagination!