Spinoff- Jewish groups where full time help is normal

Gold Member Joined: Sep 13 2010 Posts: 2264

ugg this thread is annoying.

why cant you all just live and let live.

this reminds me of the joke that someone posted here a while ago that I still laugh about (I think it was yoma)

here goes-

There was once two jewish women sitting side by side quietly minding their own business.

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 28 2010 Posts: 5029

I haven't read all 5 pages here. I don't have f/t help, you know, so no time for that.
But really, I find these kind of discussions small minded. Everyone seems to think the entire world should be living the same kind of lifestyle they lead.

I have cleaning help once a week. You bet that if I could afford cleaning every day I would be ecstatic. I see nothing wrong with that. I would never want an au pair who'd live here (I need my privacy) - but someone who could do all the cleaning, some cooking, some errands? Maybe help me out when 5 kids each need help with a different part of their homework? Yeah, I'd love it, and I don't begrudge anyone who has the means for such a wonder.
Personally, I wouldn't want someone to take over child rearing duties, but there's enough household work to be done. She could do all that and let me enjoy my children in peace and quiet, not in a mad rush. What's wrong with that??????
I know a few families here in Israel with f/t help. Their home is always sparkling. They don't know how I manage. Well, I manage because my standards are necessarily much much lower. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love a sparkling home too and less stress to boot.

Besides, I would be providing someone else with parnassa. As it is, I have a lady come in once a week. She's pretty slow, I could find someone else, but she's VERY hard up for money and it feels good that I can help her out in an honourable way. I know she's always glad when there's work, and I'm sure she much prefers that than being an object of someone's tzeddakka. Win-win for both of us.

Posted: Sat, Nov 06 2010, 3:48 pm Post subject:

I remember with two kids thinking that if I had full-time help, I would still have more than enough to do. Of course I'd have less "stuff," like, fewer things to do that are tangible and can be measured. But I could be well-rested, which would benefit everyone, I could spend time with the kids being relaxed and doing what they want to do instead of spending half my time with them doing chores, I could talk a bit more with family and friends, it'd be great.

The mother gets rest and gets to be 100% present when she's with her kids, the kids get a mother who is 100% present, the unborn baby gets a healthy rested body to grow in. And the babysitter gets a salary, too. Yay for everyone.

OTOH. Like in the shoe thread, I started out thinking that everyone should spend their money however they want, and then started getting disturbed at how far some people take that concept.

It amuses me that people are bringing up South Africa. There are three things South Africa is known for:
1) Poverty (and AIDS)
2) Rich white people with huge houses and tons of household help
3) Violent robberies.

Hint: #3 is not totally unrelated to #1 and #2.

Yes it is. But it's totally optional. I don't see paying to be able to do this. Especially since by reducing it a bit you can totally do it AND not need FT help. IMO if you're doing it so much you really need this FT help, you're really doing too much of it.

My MIL was extremely into all that (maybe more than 99% of women? or more), and still needed non FT help... the cleaning lady came twice a week, and that was it. And still dh says MIL was "always" at it. I cannot imagine, really...
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Platinum Member Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 20597

I remember thinking at one point, maybe before baby #4 that if I had f/t help I could surely handle another child. Guess what? I handled #4 and #5 without any help! I think it's a mindset. If you've been trained or trained yourself that you don't need help, you can probably manage without. If you think you need it and do get help, you will probably find it hard to give it up.
It *should* be a function of what you can afford but I'm finding here that a lot of women equate help with sanity, not finances.
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Platinum Member Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 20597

AMother from South Africa again.

I didn't grow up here. I grew up with two extremely hard working parents, who worked multiple jobs to ensure that their family had food on the table. We had help only as long as my mother was working out of the house.

I see the enormous difference between the South African Jewish community and where I have lived in America, and I think part of that is due to the fact that everyone has full time help.but hun, there are also many many downsides to having full time help. because then the help is also there full time for the children and dont think otherwise. I have seen it with my own eyes. my husband is south african and we have visited many times since married and I get very disturbed when I see the maid taking care of a child instead of the parent.

It is a very, very close community, with people that really care. It's a beautiful thing and I think it's partly due to the fact that there is so much socializing going on. sorry, but where I live now, in israel, there is a whole lot of socializing and there is almost no full time help heard of. a close knit community you do have (that I have also seen and it is beautiful) but it is not because you have maids to do things for you. its for other reasons entirely.

People host shabbos meals with guests all the times, Sunday braais (BBQs in American), go out to the park on Sunday with all their friends.and you think that in other parts of the world people dont do this? growing up, sundays were always set aside as family day and we had many many many guests in our home for shabbat meals. again, no full time help.

It's easier to do all the above if you have someone doing all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, ironing etc. Some maids here even do the grocery shopping and the errands. of course its easier....

So you have time to spend with your kids, your friends, and your family and you can develop relationships that are real. again, these relationships that you are talking about are not cultivated because you have full time help. I am 100% sure that women all over the world, with no full time help are able to cultivate such relationships like that too. it has nothing to do with the help one gets.

I am not in any way saying that people that don't have full time help don't have good relationships with people, it's just easier to cultivate them when you don't have the stress of laundry,cleaning, and ironing on your head as well.what is shabbat for? to rest and cultivate. who is thinkling about laundry and cleaning then?

I know when I lived in NYC I had an hour commute to work, worked all day, and came home and cooked dinner. Sundays was errands and cleaning. I rarely saw my friends.again, what was shabbat for?

Posted: Sat, Nov 06 2010, 4:59 pm Post subject:

I can't imagine giving up my privacy to have someone else in my house for that many hours a day, useful or not.
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Liba, mommy to Zlata Tova 5/6/98, Tziporah Faiga 1/12/01, Esther Rivka 7/13/04 and Avraham Chaim 7/2/2006