Spinoff- Jewish groups where full time help is normal

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 02 2006 Posts: 4771

This is a spinoff of a thread where the amother was discussing how she was surprised that her babysitter complained about how much she was paid. There were many of us were surprised to learn that the OP is in fact a SAHM, has only two kids, and has full time help.

There are many of us here with more kids and part time or at home jobs that make due with much less help or no help at all. The OP described how "hectic" her life with two kids is and well, I hate to say, but it didn't sound all that bad to me and I know that there are imamothers on here that have MANY more kids and daily responsibilities than me and make it through just fine.

This reminded me of when my twins were born and my DD was in a Syrian day school. The Syrian moms couldn't believe how I did it all without full time help (none of those syrian moms worked).
I'm not sure its a matter of affording or not affording, it just seems to me that in some communities its "expected" and "normal" to have full time help.

Thoughts?

(THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A CRITICISM TO THE OP OF THE OTHER THREAD!! I AM JUST MAKING AN OBSERVATION)
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I was also wondering. I was at a stage where I had 2 babies (2yr old and 1 year old) and was pregnant with my third. And I was working part time too. And making huge shabbosim weekly for students etc.

I had just 6 hours of cleaning help at that stage. And I don't think I was terribly stressed. I had time to take my kids out every day. Compared to now, when I have kids of all ages, life was pretty relaxing.

If I had full time help it would be with cleaning and cooking, not looking after my kids, except maybe for an occasional night of babysitting.

Nowadays? In America or Europe or Israel I'm not aware of anyone shomer mitzvos with full time help.

Pre war, or today in South Africa, South America, Asia, North Africa... yes, even charedim. Though I would say it's normal but not EVERYONE.

I'm not sure what I would do with FT help when dd is in school. It's not like you can clean and cook all day...
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Platinum Member Joined: Aug 01 2005 Posts: 16957

I'm glad you made a spinoff!
I too was surprised. Granted, with 2 little kids EVERYONE can use a hand. But this was like having a full time second set of hands. that's AMAZING. Yet, why was that mother still so frazzled? IF I'd have a 2nd set of hands in the house, esp one that helped with housekeeping, I'd take naps, read, take walks.... I'd leave both kids home with the babysitter and relax.

also, why the need for a weekend babysitter, isnt the father of the kids home?....

I guess some things are out of my scope of understanding, just like other people can't fathom going away to the country, leaving kids outside of stores (in full view), shaving heads...

.

(I'm very happy for that mother that she can afford it though. It's such a bracha.)
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Diamond Member Joined: Feb 02 2006 Posts: 4771

anyone ever read (or watched) the nanny diaries? full time nannies can be too much of a good thing. I think the danger is you end up delagating much of the child care.

like I said, if I could afford full time help it would be with cleaning and occasional babysitting.

MB, I think the weekend babysitting was so she could attend simchos.

2 of my relatives have aupairs. they work 6 or so hours a day for about $150-200 per week, plus room and board. Both of these relatives work part time, have a bunch of kids, including special needs.

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 02 2006 Posts: 4771

Posted: Fri, Nov 05 2010, 9:25 am Post subject:

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 02 2006 Posts: 4771

in all honesty I would probably feel pretty useless if I was a sahm with one or two kids and full time help.

But take into account if you can afford and extra $500+ per week for help your dh is probably never home. thise types of salaries usually come with loooong hours.

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 02 2006 Posts: 4771

Here in South Africa, everyone has full time help. Large families often have one live-in and 1-3 maids coming in and out to help with the laundry, ironing, shabbos meals etc.

Which might explain how you can go to a cafe on Friday afternoon and find it packed with Jewish mothers relaxing and having coffees.

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 02 2006 Posts: 4771

By here there are very few Syrian Jews and I must say I'm not familiar with them personally.

My dh grew up around a few families, though. He tells me about 50% are MO, one quarter traditional, one quarter JPF. Most are wealthy, many have a cleaning lady, some have a "maid" but no live in.

My mother has a Tunisian friend,very traditional but not shomer, one teen at home, doesn't work, FT help. But they are EXTREMELY rich. She has the helps come from Tunisia (Muslim girls) so they can speak about the old country Wink

Posted: Fri, Nov 05 2010, 9:41 am Post subject:

I have to say, that even when I worked full time (until a couple years ago) I never had a babysitter or nanny. My kids aren't so close together and I think that makes a huge difference. My closest were over 23 months apart.

Mothers of closely spaced children or multiples, especially the ones who did not grow up in large families, most likely need the help more than those with more space between children. Also the personalities of the children can make a huge difference. B"H my kids are laid back and easy babies and I nursed the ones who could, so no bottle washing, just lots of hugs and snuggles that I wouldn't hand over to anyone else even if I could.
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Liba, mommy to Zlata Tova 5/6/98, Tziporah Faiga 1/12/01, Esther Rivka 7/13/04 and Avraham Chaim 7/2/2006

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2597

I don't know anyone personally with full time help, and I was unimpressed with people not recognizing the privilege (and rarity) of being able to afford $25K a year for a babysitter without working.

I know mothers of six who don't have full time help.

Have it if you want--but recognize it for what it is, a BIG BIG luxury. Very few people can afford that kind of help, at least in the US.

Tbh I think the idea that having FT help with only 2 children, when none of you have special needs, is no necessity--and a little bit spoiled. Really, people think they can't manage without full time help, even when they don't work all day? How do they think the rest of us do it?

For anyone who's going to bring up the endless cleaning help threads: To me there's a big difference between having someone one day a week just to clean, and having an FT sitter to raise the kids--which is what's supposed to be your job as a SAHM. What do you do all day? Play tennis and go to lunch? Which does seem to happen amongst women I knew of who had that kind of life...

Gold Member Joined: Jan 12 2010 Posts: 2278 Location: US

The only reasoning that I can think of is that they might have much higher standards on themselves and therefore much more complicated lifestyles. For ex. they might take loads of time shopping for just the right wardrobe, or decorating their homes or whatever. Mirabell, you mentioned Syrians - the very traditional ones have very elaborate Shabbos meals that consist of a lot of pachke foods.

Diamond Member Joined: Nov 30 2006 Posts: 2597

You need full time help to make Shabbat? And if you're paying someone else to watch the kids so you can cook--you're spending all the time cooking and cleaning? (In which case I'd say you have it the wrong way round.)

Never mind that even if you do make dinner for 12 every night, that doesn't mean you have $500 a week to pay someone else to do it. That's why I hate the "but how do you manage?" thinking. Don't make it out like what most women do is extraordinarily taxing. Say, "I would rather pay someone else to cook for me." If you didn't have that $500, you would have to do it yourself or scale back your entertaining.