Prioritizing Tuition (Split from School Closing)

realeez

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:08 pm

chavamom wrote:

Just by way of comparison, Catholic schools here cost $5,000 for the first kid, the second kid in the school is $500 and the rest are FREE! And they have reciprocity across the diocese - so is it any wonder there are a large # of kids in Catholic schools here? OK, I know we don't have the power structure of the Catholic church, but it *is* similar to the kehilla tax of yore. If tuition was something that was in reach of MOST people, it would be more realistic for more of us not to be leeches.

Catholic schools here are 100% funded just the same as public schools... Twisted Evil

Chayalle

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:12 pm

There's a staggered teacher student ratio. In the younger grades it's a teacher and assistant to about 20 girls. As they get older, the class sizes increase (like there was a class that was having social issues, so they split that class up among the other classes and in the next year there were fewer classes.) This works because it's a large school.

So there might be, say, 10 primaries (pre-1-A) and first grades, and then 9 second grades, and eight third grades...whatever.

DD is in 7th grade, and there are 27 girls to one teacher. But in primary there were only 20, and there was an assistant.

They also have reading specialists, math specialists, self-contained groups, etc...these are all government funded. The special ed program they have in place is excellent.

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:12 pm

Ruchel wrote:

J wrote:

Next thing we know Jewish education will become a real luxury...

It has been for a long long time, and things are actually going better (more and more schools, more and more kids in these schools, a bit more schools feeling bad for turning away kids).

I'd love to know which Brooklyn schools are feeling bad for turning away kids shock

Ruchel

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:14 pm

J wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

J wrote:

Next thing we know Jewish education will become a real luxury...

It has been for a long long time, and things are actually going better (more and more schools, more and more kids in these schools, a bit more schools feeling bad for turning away kids).

I'd love to know which Brooklyn schools are feeling bad for turning away kids shock

I don't know. I do know here of kids turned down for lack of money or for bad grades or simply lack of space and ending up in PS. But nowadays, there are schools who think twice before doing it... and also before asking crazy tuition (like 400 eu or more).

saw50st8

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:16 pm

yummymummy wrote:

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

Perhaps a better solution would be for scholarships to stop being a blanket tuition forgiveness program and to structure them along the lines of a mortgage. You can't pay your full tuition now? No problem. You can afford 200 a month, and that's what you will pay right now.But you will go on paying that 200 a month even after your child graduates until you have fulfilled your total tuition requirement. In this way after several years the school would have a steady source of income outside of just tuition, that is not dependent on the kindness of donors. And yes, rabeim and families will have to face the reality that results from their psak and find workable solutions.

Great idea!

I mentioned this in passing earlier in the thread. Its a possibility, but I'm not sure its an overall solution. How would people be able to restructure? As your salary goes up, you restructure every year? When do you start repaying? When your first child graduates? Your last? What about if they go to a seperate high school?

I realize the kehilla tax isn't ideal. I don't think I would turn away people that wouldn't use the mikvah, but someone who is active in the community would be easy to deal with.

Atali

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:21 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

yummymummy wrote:

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

Great idea!

I guess it could work like federal student loans, except in this case it would be the parents paying and there would be no interest.

The parents could get a deferment for every year that the unmarried child that the loan was taken out for (not other children) is in any type of school or yeshiva. Once the child gets married the parents would have to start paying off the loans for that child at a monthly rate based on their income and other expenses.

sarahd

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:24 pm

tovasara wrote:

Chayalle - the impression I get is that those in kollel in my neighborhood are paying way way less than 80%. Imagine if they were all paying 80%, it would be a completely different story.

But their 80% would be much more than $3600, wouldn't it? You can only use that 805 idea if the school is willing to lower full tuition.

chaylizi

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:24 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

yummymummy wrote:

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

Great idea!

What happens when the child graduates & the parents pass the excess on to them & require them to pay for their own back tuition. They will then carry debt from their own schooling, their possible college tuition & the tuition for their kids when they start going to school.

yummymummy

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:24 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

yummymummy wrote:

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

Great idea!

I think the problems with the kehillah tax are more difficult to work out then the ones you mentioned here. The real issue with implementing this solution is COLLECTION. If you default on your mortgage the bank takes your home, if you default on your tuition bill (once all your kids have graduated) what does the school take? There needs to be some sort of collateral put up to ensure continued, timely payment. The logistics of any scheme are quite daunting but this one seems quite equitable unlike the sure to be shirked kehilla tax.

Atali

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:28 pm

chaylizi wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

yummymummy wrote:

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

Great idea!

The parents can't legally do that. The debt would be in their names.

The debt should also be forgiven when the parents die (or 50% if one parent dies).

chavamom

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:36 pm

yummymummy wrote:

chavamom wrote:

Great! So we'll have parents in debt FOREVER.

what's that saying? oh yeah, "There's no such thing as a free lunch"

It doesn't tackle the problem of the high tuition in the first place. When I compare what secular day schools in the area are getting for the same $10K, I sure don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth, you know?

yummymummy

Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:38 pm

chavamom wrote:

Ve have vays of making you pay....seriously, if you can't get an aliyah, can't use the mikvah, can't host a kiddush, you are going to be stuck.

Yes, but WHO will you make pay? As JAW pointed out the same people who can't afford tutiton will get a break on the kehilla tax and then all you've done is charged the same "wealthy" people as you would've if you'd just left the current tuition system in place.

Not to mention that I have issues with charging other people to pay for your (general you) religious choices. Yesterday there was a whole argument that everyone should be allowed to follow his own rav's pask with regard to limiting family size due to financial considerations. On the flip side I don't think anyone should be forced to subsidize someone else following their rav's psak...

(sorry if any of this has been discussed previously, this thread is so long and so active I just don't have time to keep up with every post)

Last edited by yummymummy on Mon, Nov 08 2010, 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total