Prioritizing Tuition (Split from School Closing)

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amother

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 1:34 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

Its going to happen more and more.

People aren't prioritizing money for tuition. Schools have less and less and have to fundraise more and more. There are a limited number of donors and they are just tired of bailing everyone out.

I'm not surprised.

It's not the parents' fault that it's getting harder and harder to pay tuition. In the last three years alone, my family has lost almost 20% of our income. Meanwhile, our expenses have risen across the board: food prices have risen 30-60% even as food packages have shrunk, utility bills have risen because the rates have risen, gas is no longer $1.60 a gallon like it was 5+ years ago, etc. A grocery bill that used to be $150 is now $225 for the same food items.

When expenses go up while income goes down, parents cannot pay as much tuition as they used to, and schools unfortunately close down. What we need to do is make teshuva and daven to Hashem to restore prosperity to the world, so we can use the money in the right ways, paying tuition and give tzedakah.

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Sorry, while there are individual families that are struggling because of the economy, by and large people don't prioritize money for tuition. Are you eating beans now instead of chicken? Did you sell your newer car and buy a junk heap that runs but costs less insurance? Did you get rid of your cell phone and switch to a pre-paid emergency phone? Or selling your engagement ring or other jewelry?

I think almost every family has ways to reduce their expenses and pay more tuition. No one does because "someone else will pick up the tab" (AKA scholarships). But scholarships come need to come from somewhere. And somewhere doesn't really exist now.

Everyone says "Oh I can't send to public school" but very few people truly work hard to send everything they can to yeshiva.

Mama Bear

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 2:03 pm

selling one's jewelry will help - for three or four months. a more long term solution needs to be found.

eating beans will give the kids constipation and flatulence. They'll come home cranky from school. and you'll save about $50 a month. meh.

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 2:11 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

OK, my cousin is on a scholarship committee at a school nearby. He told me about 50% of the student body is on some form of scholarship (its about 30% of the families in the school).

If every family contributed an extra $1,000 a year, in a school of 500 students (lets say 150 families on) that's $150,000. Thats's 3-4 teachers salaries.

$50/month per family? That's an extra $600/year per family. That's $90,000. Chump change huh?

We don't look at the overall picture to see how our contributing just a bit more every month can help our kids schools. Unfortunately, it means more and more schools are going to close.

Mama Bear

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 2:41 pm

$90K a year for a school *is* jump change. They need MILLIONS to survive.

anyway I'm lucky the chasidishe mosdos are really cheap. We pay less than $200/month for elementary age kids.

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 2:47 pm

$90k is two teachers salaries. 2 more teachers that can be paid ON TIME.

I also think families can probably cut more than just the $50/month. I think most families can probably trim a few hundred dollars a month. Yes, including the $200+ they spend on cleaning help. If those same families are now able to save $400/month, that's almost enough to keep the school open! Its also that much less that another person has to provide because you are too selfish to reduce your bills.

Yes, chassidim are lucky their schools are cheap. Tuition by me is $15,000+ per child per year.

amother

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 5:03 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

If you want to save a school $90,000 a year, fire one of their many, many principals/directors/administrators. Take a look at other schools systems besides the yeshiva system. In public schools, one principal runs the entire school of hundreds. Some schools have one assistant principal.

My kids' school had seven principal-types for 185 students. Outrageos! Nobody questions it because that's how the whole yeshiva world is run. What a watse of money. My kids; school had a dean, an assistant dean, a boys' division principal (kodesh), girls' division principal (kodesh), a general studies principal, a curriculum coordinator, and a preschool director. Excuse me? That's 1 principal for every 26 students. They have a principal:student ratio that is better than the teacher:student ratio in many schools. In addition, they had assistant teachers in classes of only 10-12 kids. You want me starve to pay for this administrative bloat?? To sell my wedding ring for this? Are you nuts?

Let them keep the two kodesh principals and the general studies principal, and you've just saved four principal-level salaries plus all the tuitions that they don't pay because they're principals. You're talking about over $200,000 - I just trumped your $90,000 extortion of hard-working families.

Furthermore, in this bad economy they chose to move to a bigger building that cost more in rent. They had enough space where they were. Did they ask the parents? No. My family does, in fact, eat minimally, and I cook from scratch to save money, but I will not starve or sell my wedding ring to pay for bad decisions that I had no say or vote in. "No taxation without representation."

Let the schools learn how to manage their resources better and make do with less - the families have been doing that all along.

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 5:14 pm

Amother, have you communicated this to your school?

I'm not saying the school isn't full of bloat. I'm saying if you want to utilize their services (especially true if you aren't OOT with one tiny school), then you make your decision. Pay the rates they ask? Or find another school.

I think there is fault on both ends. But look at what happened to this school - people aren't paying and the school is closing.

amother

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 5:24 pm

"But look at what happened to this school - people aren't paying and the school is closing."

Or look at it another way. Did the school do everything it could to restructure its administration and other expenses to shrink its budget to match the needs of this economy and the reality of the families' finances? Could be they did, but the question needs to be raised.

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 5:25 pm

Absolutely. Its a two way street.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 5:41 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I also think families can probably cut more than just the $50/month. I think most families can probably trim a few hundred dollars a month. Yes, including the $200+ they spend on cleaning help. If those same families are now able to save $400/month, that's almost enough to keep the school open!

It's impossible for a woman to work full-time to pay tuition without cleaning help.

Last edited by amother on Thu, Dec 31 2015, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

Depressed

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 7:55 pm

A) who says your house has to be pitz-pitz...

B) Husbands and children have to be encouraged or forced to pitch in around the house...

C) We all really have to rally together and make tax vouchers a reality.. When the community wants something badly enough we usually get it, especially in Lakewood/Monsey/BP type places..

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 8:09 pm

OPINIONATED wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

It's impossible for a woman to work full-time to pay tuition without cleaning help.

So you value cleaning help more than yeshiva education?

chatz

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 8:18 pm

OPINIONATED wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

It's impossible for a woman to work full-time to pay tuition without cleaning help.

depends on the person - some, yes; some, no.

Mommy3.5

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 9:13 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

OPINIONATED wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

It's impossible for a woman to work full-time to pay tuition without cleaning help.

So you value cleaning help more than yeshiva education?

If I have a nervous breakdown from working full time, taking care of my home full time, and doing homework with my kids each night, then whose going to work to support those children's Yeshiva education?

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 9:15 pm

HY, there are people that really can't cut their budget. You might be one. But come on - I know a ton of people on scholarship who have a ton of fat in their budget. And by fat I mean: cleaning help, gardeners, cable, fancy cell phones with data plans, new clothing every chag, newly leased cars (and not cheap ones either)....

Are you telling me that you think most of the families on scholarship are as frugal as you?

watermelon

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 9:31 pm

Im not rich in the slightest. But I have to say this. To me, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS MY CHILDRENS CHINUCH.

Just like I wouldnt ask for a discount in a shoe store, or a grocery store, or in Wal-mart, I would NOT ask for a discount on my kids tuition. You cant be "stingy" on something that important. I personally prefer to buy shoes in payless, clothes in wal-mart and target, serve macaroni and scrambled eggs. We've never gone on vacation. I can be cheap everywhere else, but I put my kids chinuch at the top of the list.

(BTW, when we get our yearly tax credit we set it aside for the next years tuition which we pay upfront in the beginning of the school year.)

realeez

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 9:45 pm

To the OP:

I did figure out your school and it's really sad that it closed down - the parents really loved it (and I have heard that some parents extended their mortgages to take out big loans to keep the school going but now that's lost too Sad

). My sons now have a few new kids in their classes because of this. Hatzlacha figuring things out!

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 9:47 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I do not know what others do or how much they pay. All I know is that there are many people living VERY simple lives (in my circles, most people are like this) and do try to pay as much as they can to the school. If we can give more than minimum tuition, we tell them as much. They also have a program that if you pay subsidized tuition, you either donate X amount of time back to the school equivalent to $900 worth or you pay the difference in cash (what we ended up doing for the hours we didn't fulfill due to scheduling constraints)...so it's not a free ride.

Laughing at the notion that people here have gardeners. Maybe some do, but not anyone I know personally. Leasing is not popular either here, but there are some who lease because they don't have the cash to layout for a used car, and most of the used car places don't finance. Not my speed, but I understand it. I have no idea what others do or don't do, but in general, the people I associate with live very simply by most people's standards.

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 03 2010, 9:51 pm

HY, there is a flipside to the not affording tuition - what are you doing to earn more money so that you can pay for it?

Again, not everything is feasible for everyone. You mentioned you got internet to work more. Is your husband taking on some more hours if feasible? Are you babysitting when the option arises? Things like that.

We live in a society now where people want everything even if they can't afford it. If yeshiva tuition is unreachable for so many people in your community, its time for your community to rethink how it works. Maybe homeschooling co-ops would be a better idea than formal schooling.

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