My dd wants to go to secular college....

Silver Member Joined: Nov 07 2005 Posts: 848

I am opening up a discussion about young, unmarried Jews going to secular college. My dh has stated unequivocally that my dd should not attend secular college unless she is already married. I am realistic about what it means to be married (and b'h perhaps pregnant or with a child)

Has anyone recently attended school as a young-single or young-kallah? What overt guidance and instruction did you receive from your elders about the choices available to you and the reasons for them?

My dd wants "a real college" and thinks the education at the Jewish schools is inferior at worst or too parochial at best. I am concerned about her (our?) lack of clarity about the issues, values involved and hope some input from the other imamothers might help rectify this.

Also, I would like to heard about the various online college programs. (perhaps that should be its own thread)

I agree with your dd- many "Jewish colleges" are offering inferior academics. It goes hand in hand with the inferior academics offered in the Bais Yaakov and boys yeshivot that are in Brooklyn. It will be a definite culture shock, should she go to a regular college, but she will learn a great deal more there than in any "seminary."
I went to a regular college before I was married (but I was engaged at the time). Actually, the first college course I took was with my fiance. I think I learned a great deal more than anyone taking those silly online courses. I know that employers (and parents!) give higher regard to a graduate of a "real college" than one from Raizel Rite (or however it is spelled) or Touro. A friend of mine won't allow Raizel rite graduates to work with her son who has Down's. She doesn't feel that they are qualified.
What field does your dd wish to enter?

Gold Member Joined: Nov 17 2008 Posts: 1371

First of all, are you talking about dorming at an out of town school or commuting to a local one? That could be a significant difference.
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Gold Member Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 1000

I feel strongly on this issue - give your daughter the best education available. My parents' generation all went to Brooklyn or Queens, which are still viable options. State colleges, if you live near one, can be excellent. I know tons of "BY type" girls who did it, even dorming.

It is worth it. And I went to Stern from a BY type school, did not feel the education was what I needed, and am now going to graduate school at great expense to make myself professionally prepared.
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Gold Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 2389

I went to Columbia University. I graduated in 2006.

Then I did graduate work in Cambridge University.

What would you like to know?
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my BA is from Brooklyn College, my MD is from NYU. I survived without Touro or YU and without Einstein....my kids' chinuch has not suffered. our frumkeit did not suffer. Still found a wonderful frum guy with similar Hashkafos as mine.

I also felt, for the direction which I wanted to take with my career, Touro was not the optimal choice. and Stern was not even on the table, for Hashkafah reasons.
It is doable if she has a support system around, and lives at home. State/City colleges (and there are some great ones!) are always great options, and are usually not overflowing with that same liberal outlook you will find in many Private universities.

Executive Member Joined: Apr 18 2010 Posts: 354

I started out at Stern and then transferred to Queens college. the difference in the quality or education was unbelievable (and Stern was on the lesser side of that equation, not to mention 10X the price...)

Granted, I was already married when I switched to Queens, but there were TONS of frum single girls there. It happens to be that it's a commuter school (there is a dormitory that just opened up but very few students live there) so there's no "campus life" to speak of, which I suppose is why it's such an appealing option for frum kids. Also, I know plenty of girls who are not from Queens but go to QC and they share an apartment in Kew Gardens Hills with other frum girls- and KGH is a wonderful frum neighborhood. If your daughter is thinking about other schools that are not within commuting distance from your home, this is an option to consider.

Don't force your daughter into a substandard education- even if the substandard-ness is only in her imagination. College is an important time for reasons other than professional, so it is wise to let your daughter attend a school where she would be happy and do well, even if said school is not on your "approved" list. As mentioned above, there are ways to make it work so that you don't have to worry about the negative impact of dorm life/campus culture.

Gold Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 2389

I just want to add that there were tons of frum kids in Columbia/Barnard, living the normal campus life and enjoying themselves. They took over entire floors and suites, there are kosher options at both Columbia and Barnard dining halls, everyone was very accommodating.

I went to University of Maryland...graduated in 2000 and I know that there are other imamothers on here that went there also!

Gold Member Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 1000

Last edited by MiamiMommy on Wed, Jul 28 2010, 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

Gold Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 2389

Executive Member Joined: Dec 05 2009 Posts: 471

I went to Hunter CUNY which I believe is the most liberal of the CUNY's. A lot of anti Israel speakers and protests. The education was phenomenal, and I definitely did not feel my frumkeit being challenged at all. Actually, the anti Israel/Jew vibe served to polarize the frum kids from everyone else. They have dorms but I think they're co-ed so I wouldn't recommend them to a BY girl.
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Posted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 9:26 pm Post subject:

My kids weren't ready to get married right after high school, and they didn't want menial jobs.

I helped them find schools that we deemed appropriate; DD went to trade school, it was a short course and they she went right to work. DS went to a community college.

Posted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 9:36 pm Post subject:

Gold Member Joined: Nov 12 2005 Posts: 1709

Posted: Wed, Jul 28 2010, 9:44 pm Post subject:

Thank you; you have to know your kids. My daughter did not want to go to seminary even though only 3 girls in her graduating class didn't go. Said she was sick of being in school, sick of being the dumbest one, and she wanted training for a good job.

DS's background is that he went to schools that didn't teach much English, and he said he wanted to be able to learn subjects of his own choosing. We didn't love it mind you, but since he IYH will be supporting a family, we knew a degree could be handy.

I know what OP and her husband are going through; it's not mainstream for frum kids to go out of their element to a secular school. But we realized long ago that our kids aren't the type to sit with a sefer and block out the world, if you know what I mean.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 10 2006 Posts: 5944

Some kids think "real college" is something more exciting than it really is...and many of the challenges with college for frum people come from the living atmosphere in residential university experiences (which is why being married often "helps", since it changes the social experience of college)

Would there be an option of your dd living at home and commuting to a 4 yr or community college? there are many good programs and fine universities that for undergraduate will accept transfer credit. There are many community colleges that have coursework that will transfer easily to 4 yr schools and often they are less expensive as well. Also, there are ever increasingly online courses it seems (from some friends of mine who've taken classes in the past couple years). And, it alleviates some of the stumbling blocks that residential university life does bring to young adults (I'm not bashing--I was in college too! I don't think it's "evil" but one has to be real about this, IMHO.)

If dd's interest in secular college is legit, it will be apparent even if she sees how unglamorous it is. A child of someone I know was also interested in college, so he took some classes at a local community college and saw it wasn't flashy and exciting; it was "just school" and that wasn't really what he wanted to do.
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Gold Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 2389

Learning from world-class professors isn't exciting?

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 10 2006 Posts: 5944