Anti "not MO" school, vent

Posted: Tue, Jul 06 2010, 8:58 am Post subject: Anti "not MO" school, vent

I applied as a teacher in a frum university in Paris, and although they couldn't take me as I'm not native anglophone (it's an American place), they nicely transmitted my CV to a French school in a not too far suburb.

They called me and asked if I could come "today", which I did. I was a bit apprehensive (it's one of the lightest MO schools, though it used to be great and accepting of all levels - my great grandparents and my great aunt in law attended).

But there, I was received by three people, one especially nasty, who tried to show point by point that basically they didn't want me.
You live in X? That's far!
You have a MA? Although you are allowed to teach, you are not a "real teacher"!
You don't plan to pass a teacher degree? OMG why on Earth?
You have never worked? No I cannot believe it!

Then it got more personal, making faces about my dh being in kollel or my having a 3 yr old already and having stayed home with her!

Everything was on my CV, including a pic with a sheitel so there was NO surprise for them. The only good point is that "they may still take me" (but I don't want) and we have a family friend very high there in hierarchy who will IYH help them see their "mistake" harshly.

But really... Shocked

I wonder!! why want to see me?
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Diamond Member Joined: Feb 28 2010 Posts: 4861

I'm sorry you didn't get the job you wanted (at the uni). I know that's frustrating.
But I don't quite understand. The title of this thread seems to indicate that you think you didn't get the job at the MO school because you're not MO. But I think that just may be your projection. Most of their questions are ones that would worry any employer (distance/no teaching diploma/ no work experience). Of course they should have read your cv more closely, but they just might be careless, not prejudiced. And although if you ask me it was nosy and not too pc to ask about your dh in kollel, I can understand that an employer might be concerned if you're the sole breadwinner, with all the implications that come with it.

And how would they know you're not MO anyway, until the question about your kollelnik dh? I mean, lots of MO (esp professional ones) wear sheitals.

Lastly, if it is a school with a certain ideology, I can understand them wanting to hire teachers that uphold those values. You wouldn't expect a haredi school to hire a MO or a secular teacher. Likewise, a MO school would obviously prefer that the people responsible for the chinuch of their children will believe the same things they do (for example, be zionistic). Of course there are exceptions, especially when teachers in a certain subject are scarce - but first priority will always be to hire teachers who uphold school values.

ps....I agree they should have tried to verify some of the above with you by phone, first, rather than have you go to all the trouble of an interview.

Posted: Tue, Jul 06 2010, 9:26 am Post subject: re: Anti "not MO" school, vent

I totally understand the uni. It's the school that is totally off.

If they were concerned about our money, they could have asked. Some kollel couples have support.

I think in their idea of MO, it shows on your clothes if you are or not, and if it doesn't show then you're probably out of their definition of MO.

Most of their teachers (outside of kodesh of course) are not Jewish, and many of the Jewish ones are not shomer mitsvot, as in many Jewish schools including charedi. I doubt I'm "worse"... a Jewish, let alone frum, teacher in chol is a treat!

Zionism davka is something you do not really see on clothes here. Many charedi looking people are, many modern aren't so much (like this school, though it's not anti zionistic as it used to be).

Posted: Tue, Jul 06 2010, 10:40 am Post subject: re: Anti "not MO" school, vent

Ruchel, I have to be honest. I don't see any basis for your belief that you weren't hired because you're not Modern Orthodox.

Your lack teaching credentials would certainly be fatal at our school. (I wasn't clear if you have a masters degree; lack of a masters or PhD in the subject to be taught is also fatal.) I don't think what your husband does for a living, including whether he was in kollel, is anyone's business. OTOH, leaving aside discrimination laws for the moment, I can see why an employer would be interested in your daughter. If you don't have full time, adequate care for her, including care for days when she's sick, the school has to be worried about how often you will be out. Ditto the commuting distance.

Posted: Tue, Jul 06 2010, 2:57 pm Post subject:

I'm a bit confused - why would they want someone who hasn't studied teaching and has no experience?

As TP said, maybe they just call people without bothering to really read their CV till they get there?

But it also might mean they really need a teacher and thought - someone without a teaching diploma or experience is 99% not for us, but let's be fair and call her for interview; maybe, maybe we'll get the feeling that it's worth giving her a chance.

Living far away is always bad - maybe they were trying to find out if you intended to move nearer soon?

The kolel and SAHM comments were probably the interviewer's personal prejudices.

I don't think I understand. What field do you want to work in? If you want to teach go and get a teaching diploma - an MA teaches you the subject, but not how to teach. If you don't want to teach, what do you want to do - maybe you can study next year?
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Posted: Tue, Jul 06 2010, 4:46 pm Post subject: re: Anti "not MO" school, vent

Gold Member Joined: Mar 16 2009 Posts: 2287

I'm with you on this one, Ruchel.
Either hire me or don't, but don't sit there making faces at my life choice, right?
That's just incredibly annoying, and questioning your decisions is silly. If your don't fit the bill, they shouldn't hire you, and if they have questions, they should ask, but to just make you suffer is ridiculous.

And in my opinion, having a teaching certificate is often superfluous. University professors don't having a one, and in many countries teachers with MAs and above don't need to take a teaching course to teach in primary/secondary school. My high school had a bunch of people who never finished their phd teaching advanced classes with their MA as proof of ability and no degree or certificate in teaching.

Diamond Member Joined: Feb 02 2006 Posts: 4767

I just went through an awful hard job search and heard all kinds of crazy critiques/questions surrounding me having young children and taking time off between jobs (although I do have quite a number of years of working in my field), etc.

I've also had the experience of, if you had all these concerns why did you bring me in here??

In the end, I found something that fit me and where they didnt care about having little kids, it all worked out.

I am unaware of the laws in France, but I know what the laws are in the US regarding what they can and cant ask at an interview.
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