The purpose of cleaning help

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 18 2010 Posts: 3106

So DH and I have a slight philosophical disagreement about the purpose of cleaning help (nothing big, not causing any shalom bayis problems, but somewhat annoying nonetheless). I feel that the reason we hired a cleaning lady is because we know our limits and feel that we are unable to keep a respectably clean home on our own. I DO NOT believe that this means we can be disgusting slobs and leave gross nastiness for the cleaning lady to deal with. It's called cleaning HELP, not cleaning-up-my-grossness. DH, on the other hand, thinks that we can do just that. Every time I ask him to put something away, clean up a little mess, etc, he responds "Isn't that what the cleaning lady is for? We pay her so that we don't have to clean!"

I don't like his attitude WRT this for a number of reasons. For one, I feel bad for cleaning ladies in general- it's not exactly the most respectable career, and I don't like the idea that it's her job to do all the things that I don't want to do simply because Hashem blessed me (or rather my parents) with the means to find someone less fortunate to do it. Another issue is that she only comes once a week. All those little things that DH leaves around for her can really add up in that one week between visits. We can't have anyone over more than 3 days after she's come, and frankly, I'm embarrassed in front of HER. Lastly, we lost our best cleaning lady because of this. We had her for six months, she was amazing, and then she quit on us abruptly, saying she just couldn't stand to clean up our apartment. It took us over a month to find someone close to comparable, and naturally things got really bad. I swore up and down that next week will be better and she agreed to come back.

Anyway, I want to know people's thoughts. I don't want to start an argument with my husband over this, but I feel he really needs to stop relying on the cleaning lady as though she were our servant. I want to get the message across nicely, but still get him to do his part. Thanks.

Silver Member Joined: Jan 31 2008 Posts: 713

Morah, I don't have any practical suggestions for you, but I do agree with your position.

I don't have a cleaning lady over more than a few times a year, but I do agree that it is not her job to tidy the house. It is her job to do things like scrub the bathtub and the floors, and other big projects that I can't tackle myself on a regular enough basis. Basically, she is a CLEANING lady, not a TIDYING lady.

Last edited by Ruchel on Thu, Jul 01 2010, 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Oh Morah I had the same discussion with dh.

As long as I was doing the bulk, he was very respectful and helpful. But since we have the CL, he says why bother.

It's very scary that the CL quit on you like this. She didn't show signs of "too much" before? If I can ask, what type of things were really "too much" in the apartment?

Btw, you can make up for the badness of the apartment by asking her how she goes, etc, and if she wants a drink, by not being on her back, by praising her job, thanking a lot, tips when it's really nasty etc. We do that. She tells me she has seen worse (but I know it's already bad), but it shows she loves us because we're nice and not harassing or demanding.
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Platinum Member Joined: Nov 04 2008 Posts: 8180

Gold Member Joined: Mar 18 2009 Posts: 1525

I agree with you.

do you have kids? even if you dont you can use your future kids as the basis of your argument.

no one wants to raise a lazy child and with cleaning help there is a lot of possibilities for that. the kids will follow whatever they see their parents doing, so if he says "well let her pick it up" the kids will do the same and you wont like it. if there are no kids in the picture right now, dont get into a bad habit that will be hard to break

also I always say that the help is here for a limited amount of time, I'd rather her spend the time cleaning my silver/deep cleaning the floor/folding laundry/cleaning the fridge instead of .....(whatever it is that your husband does)

Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 1:59 pm Post subject: re: The purpose of cleaning help

My dh also says just leave it, the cleaning lady is coming, but he also says when she isn't there for a few days and the place is a mess, "look at this mess" Confused

.

Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 2:13 pm Post subject: re: The purpose of cleaning help

I don't even comprehend how with a cleaning lady coming only once a week you possibly could leave everything for her. Even if she works a full day - no way can she get through a week's worth of laundry, dishes, etc. mop, vacuum, dust, scrub down bathrooms, etc. We have a housekeeper here 5 days a week (not all day) and I still have to clean up after myself because if I left it for the cleaning lady then she'd never ever get to any of the deep cleaning projects. Never mind that it's rude and disrespectful and sets a terrible example for the kids.

Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 2:32 pm Post subject: re: The purpose of cleaning help

I agree with you on that fact that one takes a cleaning lady because they know their limitations and need the extra help for the heavy duty stuff.

The cleaning lady comes once a week to do the heavy cleaning in our house.
Our job is to maintain the home and keep it tidy. And yes, with kids, Shabbos cooking, and weekly food prep, there still is some heavy cleaning that needs to be done in between as well.
As a matter of fact before our lady comes I make sure that everything in our apartment is in exact order and that everything is where it should be. This way she can come in and get right to the heavy cleaning. She doesn't have to waste time organizing. I don't have to get upset that she put things in the wrong place. And the house ends up being cleaner when she leaves because she can focus her all on the cleaning.
I really hope your dh opens up and really takes what you have to say to heart morah. Lot of Hatzlacha!
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Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 2:38 pm Post subject:

You are totally right! I have a cleaning lady once a week. Everyday I make all the beds, sweep & generally clean up. She is, like you said, cleaning help. She scrubs my kitchen & bathrooms, mops all the floors & vacuums the bit of carpet we have. All the things I hate doing.

Silver Member Joined: Nov 02 2009 Posts: 642

What your husband wants is a full-time maid, and even then she wouldn't be able to do anything. You and your former CL are right. (It must be REALLY frustrating as a cleaning lady to have to spend all the time getting things out of the way before she can even start to clean, and it shows a lack of respect for her time and effort.)

Gold Member Joined: Mar 16 2009 Posts: 2333

The cleaning ladies - and men - my parents have had and unfortunately I don't have Sad

just refuse to tidy up mess. They'll clean whatever you ask them to, but no tidying. So basically when I was a teen, if they couldn't get through my room to clean it, it would stay a mess. The ones that really liked me would vacuum the center of the room where there weren't piles of clothing. The cleaning help my parents have now will actually charge more if the place is messy or super-dirty. They'll work more or harder, but for a fee.

I'm actually super surprised that there is cleaning help out there that will deal with super messy places!

It's seems that you're quite young (it's okay, me too), and I wonder if you ever set down and spoke to your cleaning lady about your expectations and hers. It's a good thing to do in general. And this way you can also tell your husband what the agreement is. So if she works X hours she can either use that time to tidy after all your filth, OR to clean the toilet. Which would dh prefer?

Sorry I can't be more helpful. Maybe someday if and when I have help around the house...

Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 3:34 pm Post subject: re: The purpose of cleaning help

I'm very curious here, how would super messy or super dirty be defined?

I did ask my CL the first time she came if she could do anything (it was AWFUL, dd was doing messes several times a day, I had migraines every other day and was too tired in between due to the meds, and my dh had completely given up). She said yes and indeed in 4h... everything was sparkling. BH it has never been that bad again.

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 28 2010 Posts: 5032

I have cleaning help once a week. When I can find a good cleaning lady. It's not so easy, if you've found one hold on to her!
Anyway, I pay by hour so basically they'll do whatever I ask, but I'll need to pay for it. If the house is a disaster, they'll clean it, but it will take twice as long.

I think a previous poster said it. Your husband is acting like he has a daily maid. All you guys have is weekly help. Which means she's there to deep clean, scrub floors and toilets and the fridge, maybe do windows, etc. You can't leave her the daily messes, or the house will be a disaster within a day! My cleaner works for 6 hrs a week. If she had to deal with all our daily messes, it would take her 12 hours. And we would be living like slobs for 6 days a week.

And one more thought: A friend of mine lived in a third world country for several years and got used to having daily live-in help. They could leave all the messes they wished, and it would be clean within an hour. In fact, their kids and the dh really loved this lifestyle. Now they moved back to Israel. No longer is there a live in maid. But the kids and dh are 'used to' flinging everything where it lands, and it is impossible to educate them otherwise.
Moral of the story: even if you have cleaning help, don't raise your kids to be slobs. Either you or their future spouses will suffer from it down the line.

Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 4:43 pm Post subject: re: The purpose of cleaning help

The way I see it is that being a mentch means cleaning up after yourself in the course of daily living. If you drop something then you pick it up. If you wore something then you move it to a designated laundry area. A once-a-week cleaner takes care of inadvertant buildup, like accumulated grime on floors, surfaces, windows, the stove, the oven, the fridge, the bathtub. Mine will tidy kids' closets but I think it's wrong for my kids to purposely leave that job to her.
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Diamond Member Joined: Apr 18 2010 Posts: 3106

Oh goody, I get to tell my husband that all the ladies at Imamother think I'm right Very Happy

For those who asked: Wed don't have kids yet, and yes, I'd like to get in the habit of acting in the way we want our children to act so that they don't get spoiled and lazy. I'm not mad at my husband, I think that because he's not the one who's in and out of the apt while the CL is there, he doesn't really appreciate how hard she works.

What I think the CL SHOULD be doing while she's here is scrubbing the bathroom (sink, toilet, shower), cleaning the kitchen/dining area (wiping down counters, stove, sink, table), mopping floor/vacuuming carpeted areas, and folding and putting away laundry. What she ends up doing in addition to all that is washing dishes, doing the laundry, picking stuff up off the floor. I end up working alongside her because I feel so terrible about it. The dishes really take time. She comes on Thursday morning- it's one thing to wash Wednesday's dishes, but when it comes to the whole week's worth, well, it just gets out of hand, especially when the stuff from earlier in the week gets gross.

I think it comes down to how we were raised. My husband grew up with a full-time maid, while I grew up with daily cleaning help. He was able to throw his stuff around and it would magically get put away, while I was always expected to put my clothes in the hamper, rinse the dishes I ate off of and put them in the dishwasher, and keep my things in order. I was never allowed to leave anything for the CL to take care of. Old habits certainly die hard. But like many of you have said, it's best to work on breaking them before there are children.

Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 5:41 pm Post subject: re: The purpose of cleaning help

I can't even comprehend how someone can leave dirty dishes in the sink overnight but that's a different story.
Once a week cleaning help is for heavy cleaning.
People need to be mentchen and make their beds, clean up after themselves, put dirty laundry in the hamper regardless of whether or not someone else can do it. It's a sign of respect for other people.

Posted: Thu, Jul 01 2010, 6:33 pm Post subject: re: The purpose of cleaning help

tell your husband if he wants someone to clean up his mess he will have to pay for a daily cleaner. A weekly cleaner is there to do the heavy cleaning, not to tidy up. And if she is tidying up, she will do less cleaning, or you will need to pay her to stay longer.

My cleaner tidies up as well as cleans but I have her almost every day. Oh, and she does no laundry, I do it all myself. I don't trust anyone else to do it correctly, and put it away properly.

Platinum Member Joined: Feb 28 2010 Posts: 5032

I never leave the dishes for the weekly cleaning lady. We have a dishwasher, and I prefer to load and unload and have her do tougher jobs.
But....to leave her more than half a day's worth of dishes.....I think that's pretty unheard of. (And personally, I do leave dishes overnight). As I said earlier, you have weekly help, not daily help. Even if it's just the two of you, a week's worth of dishes can really pile up.
Anyway, in my opinion, the whole point of having a cleaning lady is to enjoy a gleaming home. If you have her once a week, she deep cleans, and you maintain (dishes, picking up, laundry). But if you don't maintain, and the mess just builds from day to day, you really don't get a chance to enjoy the fact you have cleaning help. Because the house is usually a disaster.
(I guess if you really had NO time, there wouldn't be a choice, but this doesn't seem to be the situation here).

Morah, I have to say I fully agree with you. But honestly, for your sake, and because you don't have kids yet - which makes me assume you are somewhat newly married? - I am begging you to take a step back and come back at this situation from a completely different angle. Seriously, if it hasn't started sholom bayis problems yet, it's a given that it will. And probaby in the near future, especially once you start having kids and the stress levels increase. All of these people agreeing with you will only reinforce your feelings that you are right and your husband is wrong - leading you down a slippery slope in your marriage. Do you really want to be going to counseling over this in the next few years? If you don't, then take the time now to ask yourself, "If my husband had to have ONE glaring fault (since all men do) which I could give him total slack for, what would I want it to be? Remember that glaring faults come in some really awful forms - addictions, mental disorders, physical handicaps, controlling nature, dishonesty, temptations for other women, etc. etc. I'd be willing to bet you'd take sloppiness over any of those in a heartbeat.

I am telling you this from someone who has been in this boat. I used to seethe every time I did laundry and have to start picking up my husband's socks off the floor. I mean, how hard was it to throw them in the stupid hamper a few feet from his bed??? He'd come home with all kinds of things and just dump them randomly on tables, chairs, sofas (still does). My blood was boiling. Until one day I was talking to my sister and she really gave me a whole new perspective. I found out her husband was the same way. and she told me, if she had to let go and turn a BLIND EYE completely to one fault of his, she was more than happy that this was it. I have found that to be the most useful and helpful advice I have ever gotten in my marriage. now, when I pick up his dirty socks, I say "thank g-d it's a dumb sock and not......(I always have in mind those heartbreaking posts you see on this site from women who really have it bad)

And you know what? I'm a lot happier. my blood has stopped boiling. my marriage is much better off and my kids have a happier mother. Fact is, men are the way they are and they aren't likely to change. So accept his limitations (just as you accept the limitations of your cleaning lady!) and make the most of it. I promise you, you'll be so much happier in the long run.