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| MimiMommy |
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 Posted: Thu, Jun 24 2010, 9:13 pm Post subject: halachic wills |
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| Do you have a halachic will? Just curious how many people do.
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| mha3484 |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 24 2010, 9:29 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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| I am a paralegal and I have written many wills and powers of attorney that incorporate halacha.
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| Rodent |
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| Posted: Thu, Jun 24 2010, 9:54 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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We don't have wills of any kind which is bad, it's something we'll do when we have the money to get it done. I'd have done a will kit myself long ago if it wasn't for the halachic bit which makes it much more complicated.
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| Aribenj |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010, 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Whats the difference between an halachic will and a regular one?
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| MimiMommy |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010, 2:45 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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well there are certain things that must be done in your will according to Torah law -- for example, if you have 5 daughters and a son, halachically, all your property must be left to the son. A person who does halachic wills could help you figure out how to go about this practically.
I'm just curious, because my dh specializes in halachic wills (and living wills according to halacha) and I'm wondering how much of a demand there is for them.
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| mha3484 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010, 2:57 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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| There is definitely a demand. I worked for a frum atty who also specialized in them and had a steady stream of clients. The other issue is powers of attorney for health care decision making. They must include a clause that all decisions should be made together with a halachic authority.
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| MimiMommy |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010, 3:06 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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mha, any idea where he got the clients from?  dh is just starting out, and is advertising but we're not quite sure where to go from here!
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| momoffive |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010, 4:54 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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| I thought you were referring to a Halachic Living Will - those are important too. It is actually a health care peoxy and the Agudah has a form - it will blast back to you if you send an e-mail to halachiclivingwillny@agudathisrael.org
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| mha3484 |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010, 5:01 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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I am not a marketing expert but I can try and help. She focused on Estate Planning issues with an office in the frum community. I think frum people when it comes to issues like this dont want to explain halacha. They want a lawyer who gets it so being frum goes a long way.
Networking and putting ads in frum media are good and also a lot is word of mouth. When someone likes you they will tell friends. I have seen other lawyers offer seminars to the community on halacha and estate planning. Is your DH a good public speaker? Maybe he can get into that.
Hope any of this helps.
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| Mimisinger |
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| Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010, 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Of course we have one. We went with our friend, a frum lawyer who does them.
Just advertise as a lawyer in the frum publications - how can people not have them?
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| freidasima |
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 26 2010, 3:59 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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But Halachic wills from what I understand actually go against many things that we in the western world consider normal.
For example, in a halachic will a wife does not inherit anything more than her own personal possessions and the right to live in a husband's house for the rest of her life. All the assets, real estate other than the house and other equity go to the sons with the oldest sons getting a double portion.
Is that really what we want? Do we want a widow to be dependent upon her sons? Do we want strife between our boys so that the bechor who may not need more gets double (the idea being that he support the mother)?
A woman works her whole life together with her husband but the assets are in his name, what exactly is she supposed to live on during the rest of her lifetime? Her own social security and that's it?
I don't get it. If there is anything here in EY that they are against in courts it is that. When a man dies without a will the boys inherit (halachic law in secular courts in certain subjctes) and then in most families the kids go to court and give over the yerusha to their mother anyhow. Why not just make a normal will and that's that?
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| amother |
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 26 2010, 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: re: halachic wills |
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| freidasima wrote: | But Halachic wills from what I understand actually go against many things that we in the western world consider normal.
For example, in a halachic will a wife does not inherit anything more than her own personal possessions and the right to live in a husband's house for the rest of her life. All the assets, real estate other than the house and other equity go to the sons with the oldest sons getting a double portion.
Is that really what we want? Do we want a widow to be dependent upon her sons? Do we want strife between our boys so that the bechor who may not need more gets double (the idea being that he support the mother)?
A woman works her whole life together with her husband but the assets are in his name, what exactly is she supposed to live on during the rest of her lifetime? Her own social security and that's it?
I don't get it. If there is anything here in EY that they are against in courts it is that. When a man dies without a will the boys inherit (halachic law in secular courts in certain subjctes) and then in most families the kids go to court and give over the yerusha to their mother anyhow. Why not just make a normal will and that's that? |
I can't believe that's the law in Israel. I can't believe people would go for that. I'm sure you're mistaken here.
I believe the law in Israel is that the spouse inherits, and after that, the children (if there's no will). That's the way it works in my experience, anyway.When my mother z'l passed away, it did go to the rabbanic court (I believe these cases always do) and us kids automatically got the inheritance, equally divided into 3 (my father was out of the picture as they were divorced). It was very easy, just a bureaucratic procedure, and no one in the rabbanic court even suggested my brother be the only one to inherit. We would all have been appalled, including my brother.
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| amother |
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 26 2010, 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: re: halachic wills |
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| amother wrote: | | freidasima wrote: | But Halachic wills from what I understand actually go against many things that we in the western world consider normal.
For example, in a halachic will a wife does not inherit anything more than her own personal possessions and the right to live in a husband's house for the rest of her life. All the assets, real estate other than the house and other equity go to the sons with the oldest sons getting a double portion.
Is that really what we want? Do we want a widow to be dependent upon her sons? Do we want strife between our boys so that the bechor who may not need more gets double (the idea being that he support the mother)?
A woman works her whole life together with her husband but the assets are in his name, what exactly is she supposed to live on during the rest of her lifetime? Her own social security and that's it?
I don't get it. If there is anything here in EY that they are against in courts it is that. When a man dies without a will the boys inherit (halachic law in secular courts in certain subjctes) and then in most families the kids go to court and give over the yerusha to their mother anyhow. Why not just make a normal will and that's that? |
I can't believe that's the law in Israel. I can't believe people would go for that. I'm sure you're mistaken here.
I believe the law in Israel is that the spouse inherits, and after that, the children (if there's no will). That's the way it works in my experience, anyway.When my mother z'l passed away, it did go to the rabbanic court (I believe these cases always do) and us kids automatically got the inheritance, equally divided into 3 (my father was out of the picture as they were divorced). It was very easy, just a bureaucratic procedure, and no one in the rabbanic court even suggested my brother be the only one to inherit. We would all have been appalled, including my brother. |
I just want to add - the main part of the inheritance was property, if that makes any difference. The three of us received equal title on her house.
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| Mimisinger |
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| Posted: Sat, Jun 26 2010, 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: re: halachic wills |
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| freidasima wrote: | But Halachic wills from what I understand actually go against many things that we in the western world consider normal.
For example, in a halachic will a wife does not inherit anything more than her own personal possessions and the right to live in a husband's house for the rest of her life. All the assets, real estate other than the house and other equity go to the sons with the oldest sons getting a double portion.
Is that really what we want? Do we want a widow to be dependent upon her sons? Do we want strife between our boys so that the bechor who may not need more gets double (the idea being that he support the mother)?
A woman works her whole life together with her husband but the assets are in his name, what exactly is she supposed to live on during the rest of her lifetime? Her own social security and that's it?
I don't get it. If there is anything here in EY that they are against in courts it is that. When a man dies without a will the boys inherit (halachic law in secular courts in certain subjctes) and then in most families the kids go to court and give over the yerusha to their mother anyhow. Why not just make a normal will and that's that? |
I only know about my experience. We went to a lawyer that in addition to our regular will there was a halachic will attachment, I guess that nullifies, the halachic aspects of it somehow. Meaning, not everything would go to our bechor, and rather divide it as we see fit.
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| amother |
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| Posted: Tue, Nov 30 2010, 10:45 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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| I know a lawyer in Brooklyn who does halachic wills for way cheaper than the regular price ($199 for single and $299 for couples -- I think regularly they're like $500 at least) and he's really good/knowledgeable. LMK if anyone wants his contact info. He has ads in the Flatbush Jewish Journal.
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| Ruchel |
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| Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 10:39 am Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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Many rabbanim here allow to make a regular will.
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| saw50st8 |
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| Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: re: halachic wills |
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| MimiMommy wrote: | well there are certain things that must be done in your will according to Torah law -- for example, if you have 5 daughters and a son, halachically, all your property must be left to the son. A person who does halachic wills could help you figure out how to go about this practically.
I'm just curious, because my dh specializes in halachic wills (and living wills according to halacha) and I'm wondering how much of a demand there is for them. |
I have heard (in passing) from people who looked into it that this is not always applicable nowadays. Its important to talk to your Rav about this.
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| JAWSCIENCE |
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| Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: re: halachic wills |
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| freidasima wrote: | But Halachic wills from what I understand actually go against many things that we in the western world consider normal.
For example, in a halachic will a wife does not inherit anything more than her own personal possessions and the right to live in a husband's house for the rest of her life. All the assets, real estate other than the house and other equity go to the sons with the oldest sons getting a double portion.
Is that really what we want? Do we want a widow to be dependent upon her sons? Do we want strife between our boys so that the bechor who may not need more gets double (the idea being that he support the mother)?
A woman works her whole life together with her husband but the assets are in his name, what exactly is she supposed to live on during the rest of her lifetime? Her own social security and that's it?
I don't get it. If there is anything here in EY that they are against in courts it is that. When a man dies without a will the boys inherit (halachic law in secular courts in certain subjctes) and then in most families the kids go to court and give over the yerusha to their mother anyhow. Why not just make a normal will and that's that? |
What if the bank accounts are joint? Who gets what then?
And what if there are no sons? Does the wife get it or does it go to the husbands brother???
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| yummymummy |
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| Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: re: halachic wills |
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| freidasima wrote: | But Halachic wills from what I understand actually go against many things that we in the western world consider normal.
For example, in a halachic will a wife does not inherit anything more than her own personal possessions and the right to live in a husband's house for the rest of her life. All the assets, real estate other than the house and other equity go to the sons with the oldest sons getting a double portion.
Is that really what we want? Do we want a widow to be dependent upon her sons? Do we want strife between our boys so that the bechor who may not need more gets double (the idea being that he support the mother)?
A woman works her whole life together with her husband but the assets are in his name, what exactly is she supposed to live on during the rest of her lifetime? Her own social security and that's it?
I don't get it. If there is anything here in EY that they are against in courts it is that. When a man dies without a will the boys inherit (halachic law in secular courts in certain subjctes) and then in most families the kids go to court and give over the yerusha to their mother anyhow. Why not just make a normal will and that's that? |
MimiMommy, can you clarify, I thought a halachic will is actually the exact opposite of what freidasima wrote above. It allows you to divide up your assets as you see fit and not based on the halachic order. I thought this was accomplished by stating that before the individual dies he is giving his assets to XYZ so there is technically no inheritance that needs to be divided in accordance with halacha. Is this the type of will you are referring to?
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| Posted: Wed, Dec 01 2010, 5:21 pm Post subject: re: halachic wills |
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| I should really get around to writing one of these. Although it's more important for those with kids I think.
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