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| Elgia |
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| Ruchel |
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 Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 4:16 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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What a vision of the charedi world! It is not my experience with it in 95% or 99% of the circles. What a chillul Hashem!
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| sequoia |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 4:20 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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That's cause you don't live in Israel.
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| Ruchel |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 4:26 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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| True, but I do have charedi relatives of various shittas and they are normal, even those I would see as fanatic are still not at all like in the article...
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: re: Religious Defection |
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| sequoia wrote: | | That's cause you don't live in Israel. |
Oh please.
I live in Israel and this is not how life is in Betar Ilit or any other Charedi town that I'm familiar with.
Did you read this article? Mayan's mother never discussed puberty with her.
This sounds like one screwed up family. Nebach. Nebach. Nebach.
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| Ruchel |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 5:12 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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| I know girls of frei or non Jewish families who didn't know what happened to them when they had their periods. It's not a frum thing especially.
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| shnitzel |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Most people who are OTD have a reason for leaving and in most cases they blame whatever issues they had growing up on religion.
Her mother not discussing pubery with her and her step-father ignoring her aren't b/c they were frum, Maayan just sees it that way.
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| shnitzel wrote: | Most people who are OTD have a reason for leaving and in most cases they blame whatever issues they had growing up on religion.
Her mother not discussing pubery with her and her step-father ignoring her aren't b/c they were frum, Maayan just sees it that way. |
This is like a National Enquirer article.
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| shalhevet |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: re: Religious Defection |
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| sequoia wrote: | | That's cause you don't live in Israel. |
Yup. No telephones in the ultra-Orthodox world here.  I'll have to ask my kids if they know what a dog is. On second thoughts, I don't want them to think I've lost it completely.
Actually, the girls' schools teach maths to exactly the same level as any other school - those who don't do Bagrut take the Szold exams in 12th grade that are on a higher level. Please - my 10th grader is studying from a regular 10th grade textbook (not specifically for BY).
I don't get the bit about she thought she had cancer when her breasts started to grow - was she the only female locked up in a yeshiva? She'd never seen a woman or her friends in class? And in BY a nurse or teacher gives the girls a talk about puberty too, even if her mother hadn't.
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| ora_43 |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| shnitzel wrote: | | Most people who are OTD have a reason for leaving and in most cases they blame whatever issues they had growing up on religion. |
Yeah, I'm surprised this was an article. Woman who decided not to be religious thinks religion is bad - story at 11.
(OK, I'm not really surprised, journalism is all about making up stories where none exist).
The mistakes in the story look like the usual mistakes to me. Let's see, all men are in kollel (to study the Bible, naturally), women "often raise up to twelve children" (does this paper not have an editor?), and they shun all modern technology, like phones. Oh, and all hareidi families will cut ties with anyone who is not religious.
I do think there's a bit of a point to what the Hillel director says, in that it's probably very difficult to transition from being hareidi to being anything else. Most hareidi schools don't teach for the bagruyot (post-hs exams), for instance. So there would be some "catching up" to do, sort of like how BTs have to "catch up" in the opposite direction.
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| sequoia |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 7:25 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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I didn't mean to offend anyone. I just meant that it's even less likely that there would be someone like this in Paris. As has been pointed out many times, Israeli chareidim are very different from, say, the average American yeshivish person. Or European.
With a kind of dual cultural alienation at play, no wonder the world of Beitar Ilit seems so foreign.
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| MamO3 |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 18 2010, 7:46 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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That is one really biased article! 
orthodox jewry is 19 yrs old? If they're gonna go bashing a whole sect at least be well informed!
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| tweety99 |
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| Posted: Mon, Feb 22 2010, 6:00 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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this is terrible!!!! an absolute propaganda!!! some of those photos put orthodox jews in a very bad light.
its repulsive actually!
well, good luck to her in her new "lovely" lifestyle!
its usually these types that have gone through a rough patch, they turn to other things but I do wish they would not generalize!
what a chillul hashem! 
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| elf123 |
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| Posted: Mon, Feb 22 2010, 8:38 pm Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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My comments so far:
Favorite part: Some families hold a "wake" for the children who have left. Just the visual is enough...Don't you need a dead body to have a wake?
"Mayan" comments that she felt like "Cinderella" when she went to Luna Park. How in the world would she know who Cinderella is? Don't forget, she had never even seen a dog. Come to think of it, isn't there a dog in Cinderella? Or am I mixing up my fairy tales?
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| lech lecha08 |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 23 2010, 2:38 am Post subject: Re: re: Religious Defection |
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| MamO3 wrote: | That is one really biased article!
orthodox jewry is 19 yrs old? If they're gonna go bashing a whole sect at least be well informed! |
The article says a specific organization helping people "escape" from the frum life is 19 years old.
Never seeing a dog in E"Y? I'd almost believe that. Now, if she'd say she'd never seen a cat ... 
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| shosh |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 23 2010, 5:20 am Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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Yawn ... another article about the frummers who are all a bunch of savages and isn't it great to go secular bc we're sure to find all the answers out there ...
And what's the deal about the reformatories they were sent to? They must have been doing more than listening to the radio to be sent out ... It ain't so easy to do that, you know ...
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| mimivan |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 23 2010, 5:41 am Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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LOL!!!
Look at the name of the author!!!!
(sorry that isn't very ladylike of me..but that's what I thought of the article! )
No wonder the author doesn't like Yiddish speakers!!
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| ChossidMom |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 23 2010, 6:27 am Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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MIMIVAN!!!
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| shosh |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 23 2010, 8:39 am Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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| That ain't no coincidence. They say the name is the essence of the person ...
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| Raisin |
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| Posted: Tue, Feb 23 2010, 8:57 am Post subject: re: Religious Defection |
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all these articles seem very similar. The subject almost always seems to be from a messed up family.
It seems like a lot of the things these people are hankering after have nothing ot do with orthodox judaism, but to do with their particulour brand of extremeism, which they can't cope with.
I'll say for every chareidi who drops it all and starts eating pork there are ten who stay frum but are just a bit less rigid. (buy a dog and a television and go to Luna park)
Mimivan -it is a german newspaper!
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