Appropriate Punishment

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 10:37 pm Post subject: Appropriate Punishment

My seven year old was rude in class, and clapped and said "yay" when his rebbe was taking points away.

What is an appropriate punishment at this age?

There is no ipod, cell phone, ds, computer time, etc to take away.

Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7257

Have him write a letter to the rebbe apologizing and then drive over to the rebbe's house and have your kid give him the letter.

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 10:51 pm Post subject: re: Appropriate Punishment

op here

is rebbe already had him write a note, which requires both parent's signatures.

I want him to see how upset I am. I dont feel like me explaining it to him or me yelling (which I didnt but definately spoke in an upset manner) at him is enough.

Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7257

In our house, if we get a letter from a teacher, the child is grounded, minimally for a day, likely more, depending on the infraction.

Grounded means you stay in your room and only leave to use the bathroom. Supper is brought to you.

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 11:04 pm Post subject: re: Appropriate Punishment

Clearly your child was innapropriate but try to understand it from a child's point of view. The teacher was TAKING AWAY points. The points were originally intended as a means of positive reinforcement for good behavior. Probably earning points toward a special treat. THEN the Rebbe reverses his behavior strategy by TAKING AWAY points for bad behavior. Let me make this as simple as possible:

NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT RARELY WORKS.

Your child clapped because his Rebbe inadvertantly switched the behavior plan. If I was seven I probably would have had the same response.

I would bet the Rebbe is either inexperienced and new or too old and tired or simply shouldn't be in Chinuch.

If he wrote the note to the Rebbe then the next step would sit down with him and come up with a list of strategies your child can have when he gets frustrated with his Rebbe. Because this Rebbe is clearly going to frustrate your son. He frustrates me and I am NOT even in his class!
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Gold Member Joined: Dec 10 2009 Posts: 1390

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 29 2007 Posts: 12057

I like Marina's grounding idea.

Even if my kid's Rebbe shouldn't be in chinuch, there is no reason to tolerate chutzpah. It's my job to teach that. End of story.

Diamond Member Joined: Jun 09 2009 Posts: 3234

I'm gueesing he would only be so happy about someone else losing points if these points were a competition where the winner gets a prize. When one kid loses points, that makes it easier for the other kids to win the prize. If that's why your son was so excited, I would talk to him about what was wrong with his reaction, but I would also understand where his response was coming from. Kids see things from their own point of view and they just don't always realize that someone else may be feeling sad while they are so happy.

If it was not a competition between the kids, then the reaction was more serious. I don't see how grounding would help, but I don't know what I would do. My kids are still too little for such things.

Senior Member Joined: Dec 29 2009 Age: 37 Posts: 195

I feel that if he was punished by the Rebbe than you as a parent do not have to punish him. You express disapproval, of course in a soft manner but hopefully he has a good Rebbe who can teach him how to properly react in class.

Posted: Fri, Feb 12 2010, 8:12 am Post subject: re: Appropriate Punishment

Well. THIS is one of the pros of Jewish school. Even in a good public school I don't think anyone would have paid attention to a small thing like this.
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Gold Member Joined: May 10 2009 Posts: 1099

Marina- If I was your child I would have loved that punishment! A chance to be in my room alone. undisturbed, reading and no chores to do and food brought to me no less!! Lol I know it works for the sociable child who loves moving around but for me it would have been paradise!
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Executive Member Joined: Aug 12 2009 Posts: 391

I teach second grade boys, and let me tell u, most of the time when they are chutzpadik, they dont even understand what that means or what they did wrong. so to answer your question, siting him down and talking to him would be step number one. ask him why he did what he did-youd be surprised at kids answers. then explain to him why it was wrong. discuss different things he can do if the sittuation comes up again and he feels like doing it again. and then have him sit down and write a letter HIMSELF, in HIS words. how sorry he is. then explain to him that your very sad that something like this happened and you expect to never encounter such behavior again. if he is an otherwise well behaved child, than this is enough. im sure that in addition to this he was humiliated and embarrased when being rebuked by the rebbe. at this point, your only concern should be that he understands what he did wrong, and appologize. hatzlocho!

Diamond Member Joined: Mar 17 2008 Posts: 3561

Posted: Fri, Feb 12 2010, 2:37 pm Post subject: re: Appropriate Punishment

Even if the rebbe could have done things more effectively, as parents we have to be responsible to help our kids learn appropriate behavior.

A seven year old is young but not too young to learn that chutzpa isn't acceptable. Showing him now how seriously you take it now will be a big deterrent in the future. If it were my child I'd have him write his own letter, and then take him to give it to the rebbe at his home. And I'd let my child know that if I heard about something like this happening again, I'd come with him to school and sit next to him for the day (including recess, lunchtime...) to ensure that he spoke respectfully to his rebbe. Seriously.
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Posted: Fri, Feb 12 2010, 2:42 pm Post subject: re: Appropriate Punishment

op here:

I am okay with how the rebbe responded, especially since for the past month they've been discussing derech eretz in class and at home.

I chose to "ground" my son. I know he's only 7 but he knows better than that.

maybe I'm being too hard on him but I'd rather be hard with him now, give him his punishment today and spend shabbos (when work and school arent in the way) giving him extra love.

Platinum Member Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 7257

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 29 2007 Posts: 12057

My daughter's English teacher has a great system. They have an envelope with 3 index cards on their desk at the start of each afternoon. If they misbehave once, she pulls the red card & they get a warning. If they misbehave a second time, she pulls a yellow card & the teacher writes a note home. If they misbehave a third time, she pulls a green card & they go to the principals office. My daughter is sufficiently aware of the system that she rarely gets cards pulled. She is too embarrassed for me to find out that she misbehaved in class.

Diamond Member Joined: Apr 29 2006 Posts: 4774

Often when children get punished they focus the blame or anger on the teacher or parent. Whatever the punishment is- the goal is to have him channel his remorse and upset at his own behavior.
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Posted: Fri, Feb 12 2010, 4:32 pm Post subject: re: Appropriate Punishment

First, ask him what happened. Get his explanation, esp as to why he clapped. I read it that he clapped while points were being taken away from HIM. That is likely a defense mechanism on his part. Speak with him calmly about the type of behavior that you expect from him, and what is appropriate.

I would have your son write a note, in his own words, apologizing for being disruptive and promising to try to behave in the future. We do ground DS, but he's older, and I don't want him eating in his room (although it does have a cool Where the Wild Things Are vibe to it). For a 7 year old, I'd take away a privilege (no staying up late tonight, or something like that), or have him sit in his room a short time to think about what he did.

Make sure he knows the consequences of further infractions, then stick to it.

Posted: Sat, Feb 13 2010, 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: re: Appropriate Punishment