Israeli amothers! tell me about this location

Trying to find an apartment while still living in america, this would be for a temporary move. so being in the "PERFECT""ideal" community is not 100% necessary, just somewhere with shuls, access to food and public transportation, and maybe where we can make some friends.

This is not in any of the areas where we have been looking (mostly ramat gan and bnei brak a few in givatayim too), but does anyone know if there is a frum presence around here?
the apartment complex is called sea and sun tel aviv, and the apartment he is offering is gorgeous and seems like an amazing deal.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl.....amp;tab=vl
it is called sea and sun complex if the URL above doesnt work

it seems gorgeous but to me seems in the middle of nowhere. the guy said there are alot of "orthadoxs" (his spelling not mine) and there are 2 shuls in the apartment complex. but still, a little wary since I am all the way in america!

it is just the first complex someone has showed me that is more "american" meaning has a doorman and security 24 hours a day, not just one apartment building etc. but maybe I am dreaming. someone pinch me if I need to wake up, or tell me if this area is workable temporarily for frum people!

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 20487

If it's the place I think it is, then it's in Tel Baruch on the beach and is an upscale place which I think is mostly enjoyed by very wealthy seniors. It is not the kind of place anyone I know would go.
But.... it's pretty close to TAU.
http://www.sea-and-sun.co.il/eng/ViewProduct.aspx?id=16

This is NOT a retirment complexx it's a ritzy living compkex sort of like some gateed communitys in the US. I've never heard of frum people there but that doesn't mean there aren't. I know celebritys and other wealthy people live there. A while back a friend of mine from university's sister lived there she was I think a top executive in an ad agency.
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oh

too bad
doesnt sound up our alley
unless the ad execs and stuff are all frum
it just seems very american and gorgeous
(and close to TAU!)

Ok I guess my next question is, maybe I should start a new thread but whatever?

does anyone know of any real estate agents who deal in more american types of properties? I hope it is not against imamother to ask that. I am not asking for advertisements obviously, just recommendations.

I looked at some stuff with an agent a few weeks ago, and while I kindof told him what we are looking for over the phone, I thin there was a big "culture shock" or gap or something. first of all, I didnt know that 3 rooms in israel means essentially 1 bedroom. in America, 3 rooms, 2 baths, means 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms. in israel, I learned: not so much.

anyways so like I said to him we want two bathrooms, so one "bathroom" was a toilet, just a toilet, no sink nothing. just a door, and a toilet across from the door. and the other "bathroom" was a shower and a sink. no bathtub and no toilet!

stuff like that. I definitely need a bathtub, how do women in Israel go to the mikvah? the one time I went to the mikvah in E"Y, there were no bathtubs by the mikvah only showers IIRC. so none in ur house, none in the mikvah?? and where do kids take baths? that is a necessity to me.

I want either a duplex, meaning like an "attached on both sides" (as it is called in NY) type house which has a private enterance meaning you walk through a door into your house, (since I am sure in the areas I am looking a real "house" with a yard and a lot etc, is way over our budget) or an apartment with a doorman/security.
we dont want something you have to walk up 3 or 4 flights of stairs with with a baby and a stroller, and I want something where if I get a package, it can be left with security or the doorman, or under my own front door. that seems to be less common in Israel from what I have seen....

thanks everyone!

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 20487

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 12:48 pm Post subject:

You're dreaming. Duplexes definitely exist (I live in one), but I've never heard of an apartment building with 24 hours security and/or doorman unless you can shell out a LOT of cash. (Which, I assume on a student budget, you can't.) Most mikvaot do, in fact, have bathtubs. My home has one too, but I actually prefer to soak at the mikvah for the extra 5NIS...no one's knocking on the door asking how much longer I'll be!

The number of rooms in an apartment is defined by # of bedrooms plus salon (living room). Kitchen doesn't count. So a 3-room is a 2-bedroom. A 5-room is a 4-bedroom. Many apartments/homes have one and a half baths, meaning there's a room with a complete bath (bath and/or shower, toilet, sink) and a room with just a toilet. The sink for that toilet might be in or outside the room, or it might be attached to the full bath, in which case you'd use the sink in there.

Counting the floors is different too, just so you're aware. In North America, the first floor is the entrance level. In Israel it's one floor up. "Komat Knisa" is the entrance level.

Oh, and you will NEVER get a package left "under your front door" in Israel...anyone who sees it being left is likely to call the bomb squad for them to investigate the "suspicious object".
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Thanks for all the info tamiri!

*Ranana sounds beautiful but I just thought its an annoying commute since its far. maybe we will revisit the idea, because it seems u can get alot more for ur $ there. I have heard the idea not just from imamother but from other people as well when I decribe what we are looking for....
*the mikvah I went to one time was in yerushalayim. I think it was on rechov radak. and they had no baths!
*I have stayed at ppl's houses before in israel and taken baths, enough hot water was never a prob. how much hot water are u talking about? is this only a prob in older buildings? cuz like in my parents much bigger house, u run out of hot water much faster than in our duplex! at least in america, I think it depends how old the plumbing is.
*doorman is not standard in america either! even if most ppl dont know about it, maybe maybe an agent can help me find more that "type" - it seems like this complex is that "type" but might be the wrong area for us (too european, too old, probably not enough of a frum neighborhood)
* so u mean that every time you get a box you have to pick it up by the post office? in america, you only have to do that if you live in an apt and the mailman has no way in. or if it is "signature required" and there is no one to leave it with. but .... if you live in a doorman building, they leave it at the front desk who signs for it. in a house, under a mat or the backyard, or neighbor if they need a signature. in israel, they never leave stuff? or they just wont leave outside a locked apt building? I assume, especially in the beginning, I will be getting stuff from america more frequently, forwarded stuff, things we might have forgot, etc, and running to the the post office (which is the one of the only parts of israel that I truly think is WORSE than america!! and the american post office is a stress! israel is 10x worse!), seems really hard.

anyways thanks for your answers so far you have been really helpful.
do you know any agents in ranana?
or tel aviv area agents too.
I know in israel agents might not be the way to go and are often a huge waste of $, but coming from america, it is sooo hard to depend on yad 2 and stuff like that, when lots of listings dont even have pictures! even if I don't end up renting what the agents offer, there is no charge to look, so just to get ideas, areas, neighborhoods, prices.
thanks!

Moderator Joined: Dec 04 2005 Posts: 6167 Location: israel

I know one building in J-m with a doorman.. They pay crazy vaad bayit. I consider ours very high at 240 shekels , and theirs was around $250 (if I remember right)...

We have never had an issue running out of hot water if we remember to keep it running...

As for picking up packages at the post office---that's the norm here.... what's worse is you often have to wait in a long line just to get the package too...

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 1:15 pm Post subject:

* our budget is under 12,000 shekels. at first we thought it would be lower, but based on lots of stuff I have learned about real estate in israel, it seems like for anything decent according to american standards, that might be what we will end up paying.
right now in america we are paying 2,500 for a 2 bedroom and we want a 3 bedroom so we think that might cost a little bit more.
I think the first agent we dealt with did not understand our budget when we got here to look at stuff, I told him 2500 I think he thought I meant shekels, when I meant dollars!!
* bath is imp to me since it is the one thing I do to relax and have "me" time. I have all my stuff from the body shop and u know how some people exercise? some people read? some people watch tv? some cook or bake? I take a long bubble bath with my music on low and just chill. at least 4 times a week!. u cant do that in a shower!
* re rooms in shower I learnt that fast! haha I was so annoyed I said 3 rooms or more why are we seeing all these teeny apartments.
* in america one and a half baths means one full bath (bathtub and toilet and sink) and one half - shower and toilet and sink. a toilet with no sink (and no there was none outside the bathroom, closest one was kitchen - gross me out) is not a bathroom, its a toilet! LOL!
* I am aware of the counting of floors, bcz in israel u have floor 0. I don't mind high floors (2 or higher) but only in elevator buildings! and the walkup buildings with teeny elevators, dont have shabbos elevators, only big complexes with more than 1 elevator have that.
* LOL I never thought of that!!! of course no one will leave it by your door under a mat, omg!!! but will they leave it w/ a doorman? will they at least ring your doorbell and leave it with the babysitter or s/t? or is the rule every box u must pick up at the post office. that seems sooo annoying!!

thanks so much!

catomylap:
* vaad bayit I am assuming = maitenance fees right? In NY 250 is not crazy at all! know this is not NY but I am comparing to what I am prepared to pay, and 250 is on the low end.
* keeping the hot water running means what- making sure to turn it on?
* so that is the norm if u are not home, or that is the norm if you send anything not UPS or FedEX? sorry I am so clueless. In america, that is the norm if you live in an apartment building with no doorman and no way for the mailman to get in. but it is not the norm in a house,duplex etc. just tryin to get a clear picture.

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 1:43 pm Post subject:

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 1:48 pm Post subject:

Re: packages.

A package that comes in the mail will only be left if you have a mailbox big enough, and it doesn't require a signature. Only something sent by courier (EMS/FedEx/UPS...) might be left with a doorman with a signature.

As for the post office, my branch has a line only for submitting claim slips.

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 1:56 pm Post subject:

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 2:24 pm Post subject:

I really don't mean to offend you but I suggest you learn a lot more about living in Israel in general before looking into specific locations. Visiting in a hotel tells you very little about how to live here.
I have never had a dood that took only 20 minutes to heat up enough money for an american to shower let alone fill up a tub.
I don't know the particulars of junkers. I just know they give you hot water immediately.
dood chashmal (and in nice weather dood shemesh) is standard everywhere in Israel.

Posted: Thu, Feb 11 2010, 2:38 pm Post subject:

At my grandparents you need to turn on the heater forever before a shower. It's very annoying. But it's a very old house, like from the 70's.
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Gold Member Joined: Apr 23 2007 Posts: 2416

My parents have a Junkers--it just means instant hot water all the time. I'm not sure if you can install it into an existing apt without doing major work.

Otherwise most apts in Israel have what is called a dud shemesh which means that on sunny days (we have lots of them here) the water gets heated up from the sun. On not so sunny days you have to flip the little electric switch near the bathroom and 2030 minutes later you have hot water. We actually have our on a shabbos clock so we can set it the night before and have hot water in the morning if DH wants a shower 1st thing.

My parents live in one of the nicest complexes in Jerusalem. While they happen to have a security guard in their building, he is actually the security guard for the whole complex (abt 7 buildings). They pay $350 in maintenance fees. But the guard is not at all a doorman--ie he would not sign for packages.

Also unless you get FedEx etc it isn't even a matter of signing for the package. The mailman doesn't come with a package just a slip then you have to take that slip with you to the post office to pick up the package.

I'm not sure you are going to find what you are looking for in a building. You might be better off in a house

Platinum Member Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 20487

In the U.S., a home has a hot water boiler of whatever size. We had 40 gallons and it wasn't enough for a good, long, hot adult bath. In newer models, the recovery rate is better so that the next few gallons of water will be heated quickly, meaning that you will have more hot water. With a bigger tank, obviously you will have more hot water. With better recovery rates, you will have more hot water faster.
In Israel, the tanks are generally 120-150 liters (30-40 gallons?). On sunny days, the solar panels will heat that water so you can take quite a few Israeli boiling hot showers. Israeli, meaning: we shut the water off between soapings and keep the shower short. On summer days, we don't even need hot water. The water from the cold side of the faucet is enough. On days that are not so sunny, or the intake water is cold, you may need to supplement with the dud chashmal, electric element. Much as an American water tank is fueled by gas (there is a pilot, flame and thermostat, and the flame goes on when the tank starts to cool), the dud chashmal is fueled by electricity. In order to heat a totally cold 12-150 liter you need at least 2-3 hours to have enough for a few Israeli showers and doing dishes. This, with a dud in good working order. You will not have enough water for a good adult bath. The tub is probably about 30-40 liters, and you will need a lot of time to reheat the water enough to rinse off in the shower.
Junkers is an instant water heating option. It's like an American boiler in that it works on gas, but there is no holding tank. When you want hot water, you have it. Turning on the hot water tap ignites the flame which runs under/over/around the main hot water pipe, which then distributes the hot water to your faucets. There is unlimited hot water and it's a great option. Installing a Junkers will run a minimum of about 4000 nis.
Another option in some buildings in Israel is central hot water, which works like an American boiler. Water is constantly heated in a huge tank. The only time you may run out of hot water is when everyone is showering at the same time on Friday (been there). This poses water usage issues which I don't know how buildings work out (traditionally the hot water was not on a meter. the building was charged and the charge for the water was divided up equally between the tenants) and adds to the va'ad bayit maintenance fees. I know that there are buildings where they have installed meters because of the water usage levies now in place.