Son in crisis-Bullies

amother

Sun, Feb 07 2010, 11:34 am

I am really sorry for what your son is going through. I had a situation with my dd when she was in kindergarten. She was being made fun of and ignored-or shunned by her classmates. I had no idea as she did not complain. I found out from another mother who saw her daughter do this to my daughter. It started from one specific girl. I did not think it would help to call the mother, but I tried anyway. This mother was very receptive to my call, and worked on her daughter. They became good friends.

I am not saying this will happen with your son, but I do recommend you try calling the parents of the boys. It may make a difference.

Also, though its late, you can still switch your sons school. It may be the best thing for him.

And therapy to teach him that he is a worthwhile strong person is a good idea too.

Reality

Sun, Feb 07 2010, 2:03 pm

OP, my heart really goes out to you. My own children are too young for this to have happened to but as I am reading other people's responses I keep on thinking this is what school was like for my husband & sometimes my brother. My brother was the shy non-athletic type. I don't think he was made fun of all the time but once he was pushed down the stairs so hard that it left his teeth dangling (& he also had braces at the time) & his arm was sprained terribly. The school covered it up & said it was an accident & that the boy who did it was going through a hard time.... & they were really rich & my family wasn't... you get the picture.

My husband was tortured in school. His entire elementary school years were ruined by miserable bullies half his size. He just was sweet & gentle & they took advantage. He HATED school & I think there is a part of him that never forgave his parents for keeping him in the school. He has gotten over it but he is scarred from it. He thinks schools destroy children & would prefer that we homeschool our children (but we don't because I have my own issues with homeschooling). His parents did send him to karate but that wasn't going to make him "cool" enough. There was no way he could keep up with their rich standards & they made him miserable for it. I will say that the karate helped give him self-confidence. After being bullied by the same boy for YEARS one day in high school (yes my IL kept him in the same school for HS too!) this animal threw an ice ball in my DH face. My DH was in so much pain that he reacted without thinking & punched this miserable excuse for a frum boy in the face. This all happened at recess with no teachers around. This boy was really bleeding. I just don't understand the rest of the story b/c my DH must have been bleeding from the ice also. Nobody got in trouble & that boy stopped making fun of my DH.

Does this sound like it happened in a frum yeshiva? Well it sure did. It makes me so angry. OP, I really think you should pull your son out of this school. Ask him if he wants to leave. If he does listen to him. I really wish you all the best. There is something so wrong with the way that so many yeshivas are run today!

mominlkwd

Sun, Feb 07 2010, 2:19 pm

OP so sorry for what you and your son are going through. My husband still has bad memories of his childhood and we are super sensative of our other children being bullied because of it. However, I believe that the sensative kids are just easier targets. My son is bullied - though b"h not to the extreme your son is and we are very upset about it. the teacher does all the right things - rewards the bully for good behaviour, punishes for bad, speaks to his mother 2X a week about the situation and is all in all great. His menahel is also super about it and the school has a 100% no bullying policy. I do not agree with the mother who says you can not stop a bully, since the teacher has started working with us to resolve the issue my son is much happier.
I wish you all the best and hope you and your son can resolve this soon. 8th grade is a hard year without throwing bullying into the mix - hatzlocha Hug

Gsanmb

Sun, Feb 07 2010, 4:38 pm

Marina, please stand up and take a bow. You hit the nail 100% on the head.

I was bullied, to the point of physical assault (I went to public school). I never told my parents. I was indeed deeply, deeply scarred.

My daughter was bullied in first grade. She did not return to that school.

The most important thing you can do for your kid is not only empower him -- and much of that takes a great deal of time and work, and comes after the first step: LET HIM KNOW YOU SUPPORT HIM, BELIEVE HIM, AND WILL PROTECT HIM. The only way to do this, at this point, is to pull him out of school. Today. Yesterday would be better.

Whatever 'issues' you have with homeschooling, they are NOTHING compared to the ones you already have and will have.

And to other mothers watching their kids be bullied...STAND UP AND BE A MAMA BEAR. No one can do this for you. Young children are not capable of protecting themselves all the time. They need to know their trusted adults will help them when they need it. We do not throw children into the water and expect them to swim, then walk away when they need help learning how. You are throwing your kids into a lake to drown if you leave them in situations where they cannot protect themselves against others who are violating their boundaries and assaulting them.

Other parents? Administration? Don't count on it. Whatever needs to be done, you have to do it.

life'sgreat

Sun, Feb 07 2010, 5:04 pm

marina wrote:

I am incredibly angry as I read this thread. Not only with the school and the principals, but also with you, the parents.

You need to take your kid out of the school yesterday. Speaking as a school psychologist, I will tell you that bullying to that level causes incredible emotional damage, on par with rape I would say.

If you know me on this board, I do not say these things lightly. In general, I am of the school of thought that kids are resilient and bounce back and can handle most things well. I think most parents overreact and take things to an extreme.

This is not one of those cases. You are underreacting. Your child needs to not spend one more day in that environment. Blame the awful school, the horrible administration ( I have no idea why you are sending money to them still), but if he goes there on Monday, what happens to him is entirely your fault.

I don't care if it is not practical or if a high school won't accept him or whatever sillyreasons you have. Your kid is thinking about killing himself, probably daily. I guarantee that. Do whatever you have to do, even move, leave the state and the country if you have to, but do not let him go back for even one more day. Be happy that he is still alive.

After you take him out, then spend time figuring out where he is going to go and all the high school and homeschooling stuff. Not before, otherwise it will be too late.

I tried to log on last night just to post in this thread, but it was down.

Marina, I agree with you 100%.

Over Shabbos I thought about this thread and realized that I think the OP doesn't realize just how scarring and damaging bullying is. It seems to be that it's still a question as to what/how can we take care of this situation. It is so beyond control already and something needs to be done immediately. This is way past the 'talking to the principal' who doesn't answer the phone stage, or talking to the boys etc...

Blue jay

Sun, Feb 07 2010, 5:11 pm

This is nothing new under the sun, because we seem all in agreement here:

Its best to take your son out of this school, 8th grade (middle school) age children can be so cruel to each other I know first hand because I taught middle school.

THese boys are terrorizing your son and nobody would want to walk a day in his shoes. Please be your sons hero, take him out! ONly this action can build up his character not going to social training sessions.

I was bullied as a middle school student, but not to the degree your son is experiencing. Please it sounds like your son is a sensitive caring boy who does not deserve this treatment, Take him out of this enviroment home school him if you must and he will thrive.

I pray things will get better for you and your family!

amother

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 2:43 pm

OP here.
Again, thank you to everyone for taking this so seriously. Just to hear your concern is so validating, after having heard "boys will be boys" all these years.
In fact, to the amother who speculated about a Columbine type incident, I've alway wondered if, Chalila, my son would *pull a Columbine*, if I could just tell the cops, well, boys will be boys.

But, seriously, this is clearly a board full of women. LOL

Every time we have a really bad day, I tell dh I don't want to put him on the bus tomorrow. Or ever. But dh says that sends ds a bad message. It tells him he can't take care of himself, and needs his Mommy to fight his battles.
Dh wants ds to eventually beat the cr@p out of one of the kids. He's strong enough, and he's trained enough to do it, but he hasn't done it yet. Dh is convinced that one day, ds will snap, and hurt someone, and will be left alone from then on, with his masculinity intact. Sometimes I win when dh and I disagree, sometimes he does.

Anyway, there are some women in the administration of this particular school, and I don't know if any of them are on this board. Since I've referenced some very specific incidents, they may be following this, so I'm going to be a little cryptic for a while.

Dh and I have a plan. They don't know what's about to hit them, but it's not going to be good for them. They are going to be compelled to get their hands dirty and fix this, or dire consequences await the hanhala and the school.

sarahd

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 3:08 pm

OP, I guess as a woman what I say won't hold too much water with your dh, but I think there are times when children do need their mothers to fight their battles for them. Your son is not 17 and asking you to call his classmates' parents. He's an 8th grader. He was a 7th, 6th and 5th grader too when this was happening, wasn't he? He's a child who isn't equipped to fight his whole class at one time. It's not only one bully, is it? It's the whole class, or just about, isn't it? Do you really want to wait for him to snap? Are you sure he'll snap in the direction you'd like? What if he snaps a different way, ch"v?

I'm trying not to pass judgment on you, but it seems so cruel to keep sending your son into the arena to fight a dozen lions, while waiting to see how much he'll be able to put up with till he snaps. (Snaps? Snap means break. You're trying to break your son?)

Can't you execute your plan, whatever it is, even if your son is not in school anymore?

amother

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 3:17 pm

I just came now to read this, and the steam is coming out of my ears.

Marina is right. OP, I'm glad you and your DH have a plan, and I hope the administration will sit up and listen.

Two stories.

1. At the MO school in our town, a strange tradition started where one member of the cast of the school play was picked on by the rest of the cast to be "the sacrifice", and abused the day before the performance. Apparently, it went on for some years without anything happening. Then, a couple of years ago, one girl saw it happen, and was sickened. It was the day of her 16th birthday. She yelled at the rest of the cast and the teacher who was supposedly in charge, and went to the administration and told them what happened. The rest of her class treated her like a fink for making a fuss. She persisted. Eventually, she found that there was a law that administration COULD NOT put up with bullying, or they would be subject to a lawsuit. In the end, the administration thanked her for bringing it to their attention. The teacher was fired, the policies were changed, and eventually, her class came to respect her for her strength.

2. My DS is in yeshiva. He tends to be sensitive. One day, during a break when no teachers were around, some kids in the class ahead of him carried on a snowball fight that had gotten out of control. They dumped snow all over him (in the classroom), and then poked fun at him and laughed at him. He called me and told me he was so upset that he was not able to learn in night seder, and asked to come home. I was surprised that his rebbe didn't do anything in the moment, but I brought him home, and said I'd call the school soon.

The next day (the menahel had been out of town until that day) was Friday, and I didn't have a chance to call. Late that night, there came a knock on our door. We couldn't imagine who it could be. It was the 2 boys who had treated him badly, who had made a 40 minute walk each way to speak to us, the parents, and apologize. They further apologized to my DS. The menahel then called me on Monday to ask if everything was all right, and to say how sorry he was that the situation had happened. I thanked him for talking to the boys and getting them to do this teshuva, and shared my concern that all the boys were unsupervised for a time, and he said he'd handle it.

THAT's how I think a school should respond. I just wanted to let you know that there are such places out there, and you have every reason to expect that your DS's school be one of them.

gryp

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 3:38 pm

amother wrote:

I think you need to ask your son what he wants done. It's his life and his emotional trauma. I think you should follow his lead.

octopus

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 4:10 pm

amother wrote:

I understand you are in a very difficult situation. But I'm trying to understand your dh's argument. I don't understand why it's a good thing for a child to snap and go ballistic beating the heck out of ppl. Why on earth would someone deliberately push a child to the snapping level. I also don't understand the argument that not putting him on the bus will send him the wrong message. If ppl feel that there life is threatened by a job, they quit. Ppl don't put their lives at risk, normally (barring police officers and firefighters). Yet this child is being forced to go to school day after day. You do realize that he will find a coping mechanism. And sometimes that coping mechanism can be very unhealthy. And then you will first will be dealing with some serious problems. If I were him I would hide in the bathroom all day and not go to class. Or sneak away from school. and those options are one of the better ones! I agree with those that say pull out immediately and homeschool. There will be no need for high school if your child comes to the point where he will say, "I don't want to ever go back to school" and then drops out.

life'sgreat

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 4:26 pm

amother wrote:

Yeah, and CH"V if he does pull a columbine, you'll hear that it's his parents' fault blah blah blah.

Your husband is clearly not aware of the repercussions of living with such torture. This is trauma and PTSD can still be a good outcome. He will sooner or later have to find a coping mechanism. It can be cutting, or another way of feeling that he's in control, or CH"V suicide. This isn't about one kid fighting over his snack. It's way beyond the control of an eighth grader. And keep in mind that he's been beaten down for a while already.

I'm happy you have a plan. But honestly, unless you can implement that plan yesterday, you should pull him out. Period.

amother

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 4:29 pm

Boys have a different code than girls, but your son shouldn't have to snap, if instead of letting the bullying go on uses his fists, the code dictates that the bullies back off.

If the bullied child does not strongly stand up for himself without backing down, he is better off being homeschooled.

My dh talked it into my bullied ds, you MUST stand up for yourself, you cannot do what you know to be the right thing because if you are not for you who will be for you? The only way to take care of the situation is to deal with it the bully's way. You didn't ask for it, but the bully is giving you a choice, you need to put your self preservation first.

FTR, I think it is wrong for you to involve authorities without consulting about the halacha first. Better for your son to beat the living ********** out of the bully who asks for it than to go to authorities without daas torah. Pressure never seems to have been applied to the bullies or their parents, you don't seem like you are vocal enough to the school, if you show up they will see you if you have a big enough mouth and persistance, let them call the cops on you for planting your feet in their offices and not being quiet and refusing to leave until they take it seriously. It seems like the school is being successful in bullying you. I know this came out harshly but I mean it in the sincerest way with much empathy, been there, done that.

mimivan

Mon, Feb 08 2010, 4:41 pm

GR wrote:

amother wrote:

I think you need to ask your son what he wants done. It's his life and his emotional trauma. I think you
should follow his lead.

Wise words once again from GR.
My son gets picked on a lot in school and it looks like it is escalating so I am reading this with careful attention. Mine is just 7. Today, they closed him in a room but only for a few minutes. Still, though, not cool.
He has learning differences, is advanced in some areas, but lacks maturity in others, and was moved up a grade. Precisely to avoid the bullies in the lower grade that were jealous of him. Now the older kids he is with now don't like the new "katanchick" who has invaded their class.

We are keeping an eye and so is the Malamed. Don't be put off by their suggestiong social skill training or therapy or something. Therapy can benefit everyone and I don't mind using therapy as a kind of antidote to the abuse my son is receiving, but it is not a long-term solution. B'h there is communication with the menahel. It doesn't seem you have that, so I would take other measures. Would be interested to hear what you and your dh are planning.

But the answer from GR sounds simple and yet make so much sense. What does your son say about school in general? My son says he likes school and doesn't want to change, even with the bullying. There is a lot that he does there that he likes. I also want to give him the gift of a hobby like music. I was bullied horrendously in school, but developed an interest in reading a lot and writing I guess to compensate.
When it comes to throwing chairs and damaging braces, though, you need to do something. You need to do something, but don't despair and keep communication open with your son.

I really am of two minds about homeschooling. We kept our son home learning for a bit but it was too much of a strain on us and wasn't so thrilling for him. And I kind of feel that it is playing into the victim mentality to decide to homeschool ONLY to avoid bullies. He has to learn to deal with life and other kids eventually, but only should be expected to deal with NORMAL situations..not the kind of violence you are describing. I think it is better to stand up to the system rather than to be so quick to homeschool, because it (in our case) feels like surrendering and letting the bullies win. But you have to do your own calculations and I don't know what kind of choices you have in terms of schools

B'hatzlacha...and thank you for posting...It reminds me to keep an eye on our own situation here before it gets out of control