Relations between a single Jewish girl and a non-Jewish man

Active Poster Joined: Dec 09 2009 Posts: 41

Hi! I'm new here. I was reading the thread on pregancy pre-wedding that has everyone fired up here, and I thought this might be a good place to get some perspective on something that's been on my mind a while.

A single girl close to me is going through a difficult stage. She is from a frum background, but right now she picks and chooses which mitzvos she is careful about. I know she's had relations with non-Jewish men in the past, and although I know it isn't proper (to say the least), I was wondering if it's actually against halacha, and if so, what prohibitions are being violated?

Aside from the relations before marriage issues, my question is specifically regarding the fact that these men are not Jewish.

Thanks in advance for your input. I want to be informed if I ever sense the opportunity that she will be open to hearing the ramifications of what she's doing.

I wish her with all my heart she doesn't fall in love with a Cohen.

As for the rest, where to begin...
-relations outside of marriage
-relations in nidda
-relations with a non Jew
-risk to "fall in love" and intermarry (yes her children will be Jewish, but if she tells her son not to do the same because the kids won't be Jewish, he'll be "what? you care about halacha now?").

Are all VERY big problems. And not "just rabbinical" as some who pick and choose may put it. Smaller problems could be breaking yichud and chiba touching. As well as a lack of kibud av ve em, a lack of respect for herself, and risk taking with other people's reputations and shidduchim if she has siblings.

Someone more learned will bring precise sources.
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nidda and lack of ketuba do not apply with a gentile. The issue is Znut: a s-xual act between people who are not able to get married.
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Right, so she is not over on niddah by being with a gentile.

It is actually a bigger transgression for a niddah woman to be with a Jewish man.

Active Poster Joined: Dec 09 2009 Posts: 41

So in terms of halacha, a Jewish man is more problematic than a non-Jewish one?

And what are the ramifications of being a "zonah"? Aside from the terrible implication.

Though she says she will only marry someone Jewish, I find myself praying she doesn't fall in love with anyone non-Jewish, since she's obviously not restraining physical contact with them...

Well, with a Jewish man she might not be nidda. But if she is, then yeah, it's worse.

My grandmother would have said that she is a murderer because when her parents find out that she is shacking up with a sheygitz they will have a heart attack and drop dead.
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Executive Member Joined: May 26 2009 Posts: 306

I think it is worth it to stress in case you/she does not know, that a woman who has relations with a non Jewish man cannot marry a cohen.

Silver Member Joined: Aug 12 2009 Posts: 628

The mitzva of nidda is the one of the woman. Even if she lives/ marry a gentile, she should keep taharas hamishpacha and go to the mikva. I know it sounds very strange, butI actually asked a rov about this question, and that's whathe said.

Posted: Thu, Feb 04 2010, 6:43 pm Post subject:

There is an issur in the torah "lihischaten" with a gentile. That is the issur- to marry. Having relations with a non joy is as entropy says an issue of znus. The ramification of the zona status is that one may not marry a kohen.
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I forgot to add, the issur is on the man, not the woman:

וְאֶל-אִשָּׁה, בְּנִדַּת טֻמְאָתָהּ--לֹא תִקְרַב

...definitely not a Noachide law.

just curious: if a girl is s-xual with a non-jewish guy but theres no actual penetration, is she allowed to then marry a kohen?

I agree with freidasima, If her family finds out they will be devastated. MAny parents sacrifice to raise their children to be frum and sleeping with a gentile is the biggest stab in the back.

Gold Member Joined: Jul 27 2007 Posts: 1676

one should also remember that it is not assur to marry a kohen in this situation.

it is highly frowned upon and if the couple does want to get married the man must give up his rights as a kohen (birkat kohanim, trumot, getting the first aliya, and one day eventually working in the beit hamikdash)

that being said, it is something that rarely happens today (at least to the best of my knowledge).

Posted: Fri, Feb 05 2010, 6:39 am Post subject:

It most certainly is assur. I think you are mixing up that not all forbidden relationships (including this one) mean that the children are mamzerim. The Cohen isn't allowed to choose to give up his kehuna if he feels like marrying a zona. But if he marries her, which is an aveira for him, he loses those rights.

Forbidden relationships that don't produce mamzerim are still forbidden (like the main one being discussed in this thread).
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Active Poster Joined: Dec 09 2009 Posts: 41

Thanks for all your replies. I have a question. I understand it's considered znus because she will be unable to marry a non-Jew. What about having relations with a Jewish man with no intention of ever marrying him? Wouldn't that also be znus? And in that case, does that mean the severity of the transgression is equal in both situations? (IOW, niddah and znus are applying to both)