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| Raisin |
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 Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: re: woman's vs man's job |
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| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | Raisin wrote: | hmmm, although you do rarely hear of men or women doing these jobs: (my friend had a male midwife!)
womens jobs:
midwife
nurse
nanny
kg teacher
mens:
construction worker (including things like bricklaying and so on)
lorry driver
any other job that is very very physical - sanitation workers, etc.
hmmm, can't think of any more. | your choices of womens jobs are just untersting to me. I have heard of women midwives and nurses. nany not so sure but also kg teachers. here where I live there is a guy who runs a mishpachton with the wife. |
I know there are male midwives, nurses, adn maybe even kg teachers. Personally, there is no way I would agree to have a male midiwfe if it was my choice, and I can't imagine wanting to send my child to a male kg teacher. I would be very very very hesitant about leaving my small children in the care of a male.
(I'm sure men can be great kg teachers, I have no doubt about that, but unfortunately it seems that far too often men are the ones caught (or worse, not caught) abusing children, both boys and girls. Maybe it happens, but ive not heard of women s-xually abusing children.)
In my kg it was all women teachers, and the boys would go and learn alef beis every day for a short time with a man teacher.
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| Raisin |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: re: woman's vs man's job |
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| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | Raisin wrote: | hmmm, although you do rarely hear of men or women doing these jobs: (my friend had a male midwife!)
womens jobs:
midwife
nurse
nanny
kg teacher
mens:
construction worker (including things like bricklaying and so on)
lorry driver
any other job that is very very physical - sanitation workers, etc.
hmmm, can't think of any more. | your choices of womens jobs are just untersting to me. I have heard of women midwives and nurses. nany not so sure but also kg teachers. here where I live there is a guy who runs a mishpachton with the wife. |
I know there are male midwives, nurses, adn maybe even kg teachers. Personally, there is no way I would agree to have a male midiwfe if it was my choice, and I can't imagine wanting to send my child to a male kg teacher. I would be very very very hesitant about leaving my small children in the care of a male.
(I'm sure men can be great kg teachers, I have no doubt about that, but unfortunately it seems that far too often men are the ones caught (or worse, not caught) abusing children, both boys and girls. Maybe it happens, but ive not heard of women s-xually abusing children.)
In my kg it was all women teachers, and the boys would go and learn alef beis every day for a short time with a man teacher.
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| Mama Bear |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Raisin, you make me chuckle. All chadorim in williamsburg have male rebbeim, some places starting from age 2!!! There is nothing like having a real melamed/rebbe in nursery. I hesitated too at first, but it's great!!! My 3 1/2 year old LOVES his 2 rebbes. I'm not worried about abuse, BE"H. It's very normal where I live. Some of the best nursery/kindergarten teachers are in fact male.
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| egam |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: re: woman's vs man's job |
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| RightOnTarget wrote: | Man job includes heavy labor - construction, electric, plumbing
Women - secretarial work though can be done by men too |
That just shows you've never been to former Soviet Union. 
All road work, paving, railroad maintenance was done by women. A lot of construction work too.
They claimed that asphalt fumes during paving were health hazard for men. 
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| chocolate moose |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Barbara wrote: | | chocolate moose wrote: | | Legally, males can not be mammographers anymore in NY State. |
Citation to authority, please? I've no time to research it, but I cannot fathom how any legislation to that effect would be constitutional.
There are male OB/Gyn's, you know. There are also men who require mammograms. |
Al pi my mammographer, when my ds was thinking aobut radiology school. Men who require mamograms have female mammographers.
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| Raisin |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Mama Bear wrote: | | Raisin, you make me chuckle. All chadorim in williamsburg have male rebbeim, some places starting from age 2!!! There is nothing like having a real melamed/rebbe in nursery. I hesitated too at first, but it's great!!! My 3 1/2 year old LOVES his 2 rebbes. I'm not worried about abuse, BE"H. It's very normal where I live. Some of the best nursery/kindergarten teachers are in fact male. |
I am quite aware of that. and I didn't say they can't be good teachers. I guess if I had no choice I would have to, but I would 100 times prefer a woman teacher for a small child who is too young to even tell you what is going on.
btw did you read that npr report on abuse in williamsburg? it wasn't a kg teacher, but a school principle (who is still working!) and a guy in a mikva. So be aware...
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| ss321 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Mama Bear wrote: | | Ugh, I dont know why they assign male nurses to female patients. |
the same reason they assign female doctors to male patients
I understand why you would feel uncomfortable, but if you think about it...youve been to male OB's before. It is just a job to them, at the end of the day. And hospitals cant start saying, all female doctors and nurses only see the females, all male drs and nurses only see the males....
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| ss321 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| chocolate moose wrote: | | Barbara wrote: | | chocolate moose wrote: | | Legally, males can not be mammographers anymore in NY State. |
Citation to authority, please? I've no time to research it, but I cannot fathom how any legislation to that effect would be constitutional.
There are male OB/Gyn's, you know. There are also men who require mammograms. |
Al pi my mammographer, when my ds was thinking aobut radiology school. Men who require mamograms have female mammographers. |
as far as I know, in NY state this would be considered illegal. I would defiintely feel more comfortable with a female technician, and maybe the practie where she is employed has a certain policy (Even though, I still think that would be illegal as well, I dont know). But men can get breast cancer too, and in 21st century america, you cant forbid half the population from pursuing a given profession based on their gender alone, thats the law....
seriously she must be grossly misinformed.
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| Fox |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 4:32 pm Post subject: re: woman's vs man's job |
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I've noticed that lots of medical care facilities seem to be getting more senstitive about having nurses of different genders available for situations or patients where it would be more comfortable. I'm not sure if there are simply more people making the request or if a greater number of male nurses enables them to assign staff members with greater flexibility.
I agree with Mama Bear and others that boys really, really need male interaction. It's so hard for many of our husbands to be home as much as they would like, and just the experience of seeing how a frum man conducts himself is so important when they're little. My DD makes a backyard camp every summer, and she hires her younger brother and a few of his classmates as counselors. The parents love it -- the preschool boys admire their older counselors tremendously and want to imitate them. It gives my DD so much nachas when a parent tells that a child is now eager to put on tzistzis or tuck in his shirt -- all because his counselor does!
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| ss321 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: re: woman's vs man's job |
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| Raisin wrote: |
I know there are male midwives, nurses, adn maybe even kg teachers. Personally, there is no way I would agree to have a male midiwfe if it was my choice, and I can't imagine wanting to send my child to a male kg teacher. I would be very very very hesitant about leaving my small children in the care of a male.
(I'm sure men can be great kg teachers, I have no doubt about that, but unfortunately it seems that far too often men are the ones caught (or worse, not caught) abusing children, both boys and girls. Maybe it happens, but ive not heard of women s-xually abusing children.)
hmmm, can't think of any more. | your choices of womens jobs are just untersting to me. I have heard of women midwives and nurses. nany not so sure but also kg teachers. here where I live there is a guy who runs a mishpachton with the wife.[/quote]
OK, in light of the recent lakewood thread, I hear where you are coming from, it really scared me alot. But then again, all basement playgroups that are unlicensed and illegal scare me, so take that with a grain of salt I guess.
Two things.
First of all:
http://www.forward.com/articles/12964/
second of all, [taken from the male babysitters thread]:
| Barbara wrote: | I'd have no problem at all with a male babysitter. While more males than females molest children, the vast, vast, vast majority of men are not molesters. Why would I paint them all with that broad brush?
A 2001 University of Pennsylvania study on child safety found that 47 percent of child molesters were relatives; 49 percent acquaintances, such as a teacher, coach or neighbor; and only 4 percent strangers. Based on the thinking here, I should therefore find the nearest stranger to watch kids, but be sure to never, ever trust grandparents, aunts & uncles or cousins. And since 49% of molesters are teachers, coaches and neighbors, I should be sure to stay away from THEM. |
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| Mama Bear |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| its different to be seen by a male OB Gyn, than by a male nurse. Somehow, because a nurse is such a 'female' profession, it felt very weird to have a male nurse. But BH it's past.
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| IndyMom |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 5:06 pm Post subject: re: woman's vs man's job |
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I wish people wouldn't think that nursing is a 'female' profession anymore. There are so many amazing male nurses who bring a different dimension into the field.
Maybe back when nursing was all about looking pretty and wiping sweat off the brow of a wounded soldier... and wives baked cookies all day in their high heels.
But these days nurses are scientists and a great profession for men and women who love medicine and caring for people.
Actually, I find this whole thread kind of insulting to both genders. Why can't everyone be whatever they have the talents to be? A male who is amazing with toddlers can be a great preschool teacher and a female with a numbers brain can be a rocket scientist. In our house we don't define our roles based on gender, but based on our G-d given talents and strengths. I am not a feminist - just a personist in that I believe every person should strive to fulfill their potential which may be in a different area than where "society" thinks that person should be.
Ok, off my soapbox now. 
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| ss321 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mama Bear wrote: | | its different to be seen by a male OB Gyn, than by a male nurse. Somehow, because a nurse is such a 'female' profession, it felt very weird to have a male nurse. But BH it's past. |
people say the same thing to me all the time. But medicine is such a "male" profession. Why didnt you become a nurse?
Times are a'changin my dear
Its only a "female" profession because there have historically been more female nurses than male nurses.
Being a secretary believe it or not, used to be a "male profession" back in the days when absolutley NO women worked outside the home.
It only felt wierd because you had never had one before! They are professionals and they really dont care about your bowel movements or anything else...just like any (male) OB who looks at womens .... all day long, isnt thinking about that when they go home. Its a job, you get paid for it, the end. Hopefully youll help some people along the way.
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| Raisin |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ss321 wrote: | | Mama Bear wrote: | | its different to be seen by a male OB Gyn, than by a male nurse. Somehow, because a nurse is such a 'female' profession, it felt very weird to have a male nurse. But BH it's past. |
people say the same thing to me all the time. But medicine is such a "male" profession. Why didnt you become a nurse?
. |
people say that to you? I thought nowadays there are more female medical students then male.
I think male nurses are great, for male patients. I wouldn't want a male nurse myself, but then again I always go to a female dr if I can.
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| ss321 |
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| Posted: Wed, Feb 04 2009, 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Raisin wrote: |
people say that to you? I thought nowadays there are more female medical students then male.
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there are. But that is within the general population.
Not in brooklyn...and definitely not in our shul!
I seriously can make a list of the dozens upon dozens of dumb comments ive gotten!
Someone (this is not in my little enclave of brooklyn, so it cant be because all NYers are "closed minded" it was in an out of town city) told me they didnt know women were allowed to go to medical school. And with a totally serious face I like corrected her misconception and she was like oh...ok...yea I guess all the doctors Ive been to are men, and I just thought women became nurses and men became doctors.
I am not making that up
I also have had people ask me if I am jewish (even though I am wearing a shaitel? go figure)
| Raisin wrote: |
I think male nurses are great, for male patients. I wouldn't want a male nurse myself, but then again I always go to a female dr if I can. |
Right, so for someone who likees to go to femal doctors, I would understand where you are coming from, and your outlook is logical
but to be ok with a male doc but not a male nurse, I dont understand it, but to each their own.
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| Mrs Bissli |
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| Posted: Thu, Feb 05 2009, 8:26 pm Post subject: re: woman's vs man's job |
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My cousin who started as a chemical engineer back in the early 1980s used to tell me
how shocked she was to find on her first day of assignment that a petrochemical plant
she worked did not have a women's bathroom...
(ha, not anymore! lady's loo even on an offshore oil drilling platform nowadays!)
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