What makes a rabbi, a rabbi?

Posted: Sun, Feb 01 2009, 8:18 am Post subject: what makes a rabbi, a rabbi?

semicha, of course, but what makes a person choose their lor? Do you check them out, like you would a shidduch, but with different questions Wink

? Do you have one just for poskining (word? no) and a separate one for other things?
It seems like every other person is a rabbi, but what does that exactly mean? There are rabbiim for shuls and schools, but what else for?
One of my brothers are called rabbi because he's a prinipal/teacher in a boys school, but as far as I know, he doesn't have semicha. Rabbi is a title that people seem to use very haphazardly nowadays.
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A rabbi has semicha. Then there is dayonos, which means you are the type of rav people bring shailos and bedikos to. A dayan is either known as Dayan so and so, or simply Rabbi so and so.

My husband is a rabbi of a shul and has semicha but he has several dayanim who he calls up for shailos.

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 10 2006 Posts: 6561

no, not all "rabbis" have smicha.

I can think of 2 well respected and learned rabbis, who probably know all that's needed to know and then some for smicha, but for whatever reasons, do not have smicha.

But these 2 are major mechanchim, totally deserving of the title, IMHO.

The type of smicha today isn't the smicha of the sanhedrin anyways, to my knowledge.
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Platinum Member Joined: May 06 2007 Posts: 8512

When we moved from EY to Queens, we totally checked into rabbis. Actually, after looking into several, we interviewed two, and chose one to be our Rav.

At the time I was expecting and we needed a Rav to answer all of the questions that would come with the birth, etc. Also, we wanted someone that both of us would be comfortable calling with a shaila but was also of the right hashkafa and personality.

Personally, I (and everyone else who knows him) think that our Rav is going to be one of the GREATS - you know, one on torah cards, etc. He has amazing yichus - I guess that kind of modesty, piousness, and righteousness is genetic Smile

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Gold Member Joined: Jan 22 2008 Posts: 1742

DH has semicha and dayanus (he is a certified dayan) but he's not a "practicing" LOR and nobody calls him Rabbi... What

(besides for me... Laughing

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Platinum Member Joined: Sep 22 2004 Posts: 9754

What makes somebody a dayan? I have only heard the term here used by chasidim in reference to those who paskin shailos like nidda. Where I come from a "dayan" is someone who sits on a bais din to paskin cases involving money. Even someone who has yadin yadin semicha (is a mumche in Choshen Mishpat-- also dinei mammonos) wouldn't be a "dayan" necessarily.
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Platinum Member Joined: Sep 11 2004 Posts: 19241

I never heard the term "dayan" either until Imamother. Except in historical fiction novels.
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A dayan has yadin yadin as opposed to a rav who has yoreh yorah. That's all. The rest you learn "on the job"...
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Posted: Sun, Feb 01 2009, 1:07 pm Post subject: re: what makes a rabbi, a rabbi?

I think there is another harder semicha besides yoreh,yoreh and yadin, yadin. Isn't there a third?

Posted: Sun, Feb 01 2009, 1:14 pm Post subject:

there are also different types of normal smicha. there is smichas in which u dont learn things so in depth and only say one or two topics and ur given smicha on that and then there is smicha where u have to learn maybe subjects and very indepth from the beginning rishon to the acharonim and ur given smicha on that which is a lot more comprehensive for a rav who paskens shailos. a dayan has to do an extra smicha of dayonos

Platinum Member Joined: Sep 22 2004 Posts: 9754

Posted: Sun, Feb 01 2009, 1:28 pm Post subject:

according to my husband there are lots of ppl who have learnt yadin yadin but are not dayanim bc u have to do shimush with a beis din and then be appointed by that beis din before u are a proper dayan

Gold Member Joined: Jan 22 2008 Posts: 1742

A dayan is someone who has yadin yadin - whether or not he is referred to by the title. The certification of yadin yadin means that the person now has the option of becoming a dayan on a bais din. This does not happen automatically - to reach this goal one would have to spend much time in the company of a bais din watching cases and learning from them. Eventually, he would be admitted to the bais din as a dayan. A bais din will not admit someone who does not have yadin yadin certification.

This differs from a rav who is posek shailos. In order to reach that goal one would have to do what is commonly called "shimush." Shimush means spending time in the company of a Rav who answers shailos (this can be done in a bais din), and assisting him in specific areas. Once the Rav decides that the person has seen enough that he will be able to answer many shailos on his own, he will officially give him "shimush" meaning he [the student] will be worthy of answering shailos on his own.

Yore Yore is necessary for shimush while Yadin yadin is not necessarily required but most rabbonim prefer that the student has attained both certifications before agreeing to take him on as a "shimush" student.

Posted: Sun, Feb 01 2009, 3:44 pm Post subject: re: what makes a rabbi, a rabbi?

I never really looked for a rabbi, I just naturally found them when needed (both of the rabbis I would call "my rabbi" I met b/c they taught a shiur).

For me the crucial element is a certain kind of life wisdom. They have to know what's what in terms of people's lives and the difficulties of life, and they have to care about people. Oh, and they have to be the kind of rabbi who would say "That's a decision you'll have to make yourself" or "That's not really a halachic issue" if you ask a question that isn't really a question you need to ask a rabbi.

That way if they tell me something I really wasn't expecting to hear or really didn't want to hear, I can accept it. If "my" rabbi were to tell me that I have to kasher the whole kitchen or that something I was 100% sure was assur is really muttar or that I can't attend a certain simcha or that I owe someone a lot of money -- it would be hard but I would accept it because I trust that he's giving me the genuine psak, with no outside influences or lack of caring about my situation involved.

That said I trust different rabbis for different issues--I would only ask "my" rabbis the big, possibly painful questions, but I trust whoever the local Orthodox rabbi is on kashrut, and there's a rabbi nearby who I go to with urgent questions.

Posted: Sun, Feb 01 2009, 4:42 pm Post subject: re: what makes a rabbi, a rabbi?

we didnt really find our rav. he became the rav of my husband's father's little "shteibel", and so became my fils rav, and we decided we liked him so we kept with him. But we just ask him halachic shaylos bec he is such a tamim person that he doesnt understand certain tough situations that we need advice on- its almost as if he doesnt understand how people can be anything but tzadikkim like he is.

Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 2:26 am Post subject:

Our rav is the head of the sem. where I went to learn, and dh works at the men's school. He knows both of us well. We go to him for all kinds of questions and advice. It's wonderful having a rav we are both 100% comfortable with because we can always go to him. He is also a very accessible person, I can call him at home, etc. (and usually I am very shy about calling people at home, but with him I feel comfortable). I am also very close to his wife and I have asked her things about chinuch, etc. I feel truly blessed to be in such a situation.
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Gold Member Joined: Jan 01 2006 Posts: 1859

We completely separate. We have a rav we've been close to for well over a decade but who lives in Israel whom we use for hashkafic questions. Here there's one rav for TH shailos, and then another rav for other shailos.
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